A fine example of WHY more gun laws are pointless and stupid

[Adam]

Gun thief sentenced to 20 years probation

One of three area men charged with breaking into a Pleasant Valley Township home to cut open a safe with a blowtorch and steal more than $100,000 worth of guns, was sentenced to probation last week.

Brian Reicks, 19, of Riceville, Iowa, pleaded guilty to one count of felony theft of a firearm and one count of felony theft for taking a motor vehicle without consent as part of the agreement Oct. 15, 2015. He was originally charged with an additional count of felony theft and an additional count of felony first-degree burglary and possession of a dangerous weapon.

Reicks was sentenced to 20 years of supervised probation.

[....]

According to court complaints, the men allegedly broke into a home on April 8, 2015, where they tipped over a gun safe, cut open the bottom of it, and stole more than 85 guns, then allegedly stored the guns at Morse’s home in Riceville.

[....]

Most of the guns were sold, and police recovered at least 82 of them.

So, we have someone who stole a bunch of guns, then sold them on the street, somehow completely undeterred by any background check requirement, gets caught, and, facing 850 years in prison, they give him ... probation.

And people wonder why I say that we should enforce the laws that are on the books?

[phillygirl]

Allegedly. The final plea was one count of felony theft of firearm. Who knows what the prosecutor could prove?

[Adam]

Allegedly. The final plea was one count of felony theft of firearm. Who knows what the prosecutor could prove?

With confessions to police in two jurisdictions that he had in fact stolen the guns and then taken them across state lines to sell them illegally? I should think that a prosecutor could get a lot more than probation on two felony counts.

[Norm dePlume]

If he's one of three, what happened to the other two? Could be he cut a plea deal in exchange for testifying against the other guys.

[Adam]

If he's one of three, what happened to the other two? Could be he cut a plea deal in exchange for testifying against the other guys.

And that needs to stop.

Either we're going to enforce these gun laws that everyone has howled for or we need to get rid of them. If you support plea-bargaining away the crimes of gun felons, then you have absolutely no right to bitch or demand more laws.

[phillygirl]

With confessions to police in two jurisdictions that he had in fact stolen the guns and then taken them across state lines to sell them illegally? I should think that a prosecutor could get a lot more than probation on two felony counts.

The victim reported the robbery to Mower County Sheriff’s deputies on April 20 and said Mogren had admitted to the theft. During an interview, Reicks told police Mogren led them to believe the victim had given them permission to break into the gun safe as he couldn’t get it open. Reicks and Morse also told police Mogren said they could keep whatever guns they found inside of the safe if they successfully got it open.

Reicks later told police he had two shotguns belonging to Mogren’s relatives but denied breaking into the home. Police eventually searched Reicks’s property, where they found another motorcycle, two motorbikes and various equipment that belonged to the victim.

Everybody is turning. Definitely may have been a deal cut to get the other 2.

[Norm dePlume]

And that needs to stop.

Either we're going to enforce these gun laws that everyone has howled for or we need to get rid of them. If you support plea-bargaining away the crimes of gun felons, then you have absolutely no right to bitch or demand more laws.

Why limit it to gun laws? Let's eliminate all laws. That'll get rid of plea bargaining.

[Norm dePlume]

Oh, and you didn't answer my question. What happened to the other two?

It never even occurred to you to ask, did it?

[Djharkavy]

And that needs to stop.

Either we're going to enforce these gun laws that everyone has howled for or we need to get rid of them. If you support plea-bargaining away the crimes of gun felons, then you have absolutely no right to bitch or demand more laws.

Are you opposed to plea bargaining and deals in general, or just in gun cases?

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[Adam]

Oh, and you didn't answer my question. What happened to the other two?

I don't know. It's not relevant.

It never even occurred to you to ask, did it?

Of course it did. But I don't really care; "the other guy did it, too!" is not a valid defense. Sorry.

Are you opposed to plea bargaining and deals in general, or just in gun cases?

Some of both. I think that far too many prosecutors do too much bargaining away, to the point that the justice system is now a negotiation, not really a finding of fact and then appropriate corrective action under the law.

In the case of gun laws, though, they are the most disregarded laws on the books, as far as anything seriously criminal. Virtually no one who engages in a gun crime is actually prosecuted for that gun crime, and yet at the same time there are lots of gun-grabber types out there shouting that we need more gun laws.

[Djharkavy]

I don't know. It's not relevant.

Actually, it is.

If this guy did a deal, and turned the case on the other two, then it is a net gain.

Some of both. I think that far too many prosecutors do too much bargaining away, to the point that the justice system is now a negotiation, not really a finding of fact and then appropriate corrective action under the law.

While I agree with the idea, the budget needed to actually try every case would be enormous.

And even if there were no plea bargaining if that sort, we would still bargain with little fish to get evidence in the big ones.

In the case of gun laws, though, they are the most disregarded laws on the books, as far as anything seriously criminal. Virtually no one who engages in a gun crime is actually prosecuted for that gun crime, and yet at the same time there are lots of gun-grabber types out there shouting that we need more gun laws.

You talk in near absolutes. What are the numbers, and how do they compare with other crimes?

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That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

[Adam]

Actually, it is.

If this guy did a deal, and turned the case on the other two, then it is a net gain.

I disagree. He's already admitted what he did, and it was multiple felonies. The price to "flip" him was far too high.

While I agree with the idea, the budget needed to actually try every case would be enormous.

It's not all or nothing. I'm not saying that every single case needs to be tried. What I am saying is that if people are going to complain about gun laws, then they need to look at actual enforcement first, and that starts with actually punishing people who commit gun crimes.

You talk in near absolutes. What are the numbers, and how do they compare with other crimes?

I'll have to go dig it up. IIRC, last I saw, it was something north of 90% of gun crimes that never actually get prosecuted.

[Gingersnap]

Sometimes pragmatism is a slow poison. If we actually enforced laws (all of them), I expect that we would pare them down to a manageable level.

The way it is now, a normal person violates a city, state, or federal law every day. You can't help it and you can't seriously avoid it since there are hundreds of thousands of laws.

At the same time, many actual criminals get to plead to take the burden off prosecutors and courts. Everybody knows that they guilty of the initial charge but it's too expensive to take them to trial.

Sometimes living with your convictions is the best way to change them. If two thirds of the American population had to deal with the ridiculous fines, fees, and time involved with legal idiocy, maybe we'd be motivated to reduce the dumbness.

Maybe.

[phillygirl]

Sometimes pragmatism is a slow poison. If we actually enforced laws (all of them), I expect that we would pare them down to a manageable level.

The way it is now, a normal person violates a city, state, or federal law every day. You can't help it and you can't seriously avoid it since there are hundreds of thousands of laws.

At the same time, many actual criminals get to plead to take the burden off prosecutors and courts. Everybody knows that they guilty of the initial charge but it's too expensive to take them to trial.

Sometimes living with your convictions is the best way to change them. If two thirds of the American population had to deal with the ridiculous fines, fees, and time involved with legal idiocy, maybe we'd be motivated to reduce the dumbness.

Maybe.

Not always. Cops and prosecutors frequently overcharge to encourage pleas. And the system would grind to a halt if we tried every single case there is. In my county, in just one city, there used to be "Murder Wednesday". An entire day devoted to just murders and the plea deals were incredible. They've stopped that.

[Gingersnap]

Not always. Cops and prosecutors frequently overcharge to encourage pleas. And the system would grind to a halt if we tried every single case there is. In my county, in just one city, there used to be "Murder Wednesday". An entire day devoted to just murders and the plea deals were incredible. They've stopped that.

And the state and feds "over-charge" average people also. Constantly.

Instead of throwing up our hands and talking about how impossible it is to deal with the system, maybe we need to change the system so it's more useful and less damaging.

Sometimes living with an open sore is not the answer. Sometimes, you have cut that sucker out and deal with the scar.