America Is Not a Democracy

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  • Billy Jingo
    I shave with Occam's Razor
    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
    • 18663

    #1

    America Is Not a Democracy

    America Is Not a Democracy

    How the United States lost the faith of its citizens—and what it can do to win them back


    For years, the residents of Oxford, Massachusetts, seethed with anger at the company that controlled the local water supply. The company, locals complained, charged inflated prices and provided terrible service. But unless the town’s residents wanted to get by without running water, they had to pay up, again and again.

    The people of Oxford resolved to buy the company out. At a town meeting in the local high-school auditorium, an overwhelming majority of residents voted to raise the millions of dollars that would be required for the purchase. It took years, but in May 2014, the deal was nearly done: One last vote stood between the small town and its long-awaited goal.

    The company, however, was not going down without a fight. It mounted a campaign against the buyout. On the day of the crucial vote, the high-school auditorium swelled to capacity. Locals who had toiled on the issue for years noticed many newcomers—residents who hadn’t showed up to previous town meetings about the buyout. When the vote was called, the measure failed—the company, called Aquarion, would remain the town’s water supplier. Supporters of the buyout mounted a last-ditch effort to take a second vote, but before it could be organized, a lobbyist for Aquarion pulled a fire alarm. The building had to be evacuated, and the meeting adjourned. Aquarion retains control of Oxford’s water system to this day.

    The company denied that the lobbyist was acting on its behalf when he pulled the alarm; it also denies that its rates were abnormally high or that it provides poor service. Some Oxford residents supported Aquarion, and others opposed the buyout because they feared the cost and complication of the town running its own water company. But many residents, liberal and conservative, were frustrated by the process. The vote, they felt, hadn’t taken place on a level playing field.

    “It was a violation of the sanctity of our local government by big money,” Jen Caissie, a former chairman of the board of selectmen in Oxford, told me. “Their messiah is their bottom line, not the health of the local community. And I say that as a Republican, someone who is in favor of local business.”

    A New England town meeting would seem to be one of the oldest and purest expressions of the American style of government. Yet even in this bastion of deliberation and direct democracy, a nasty suspicion had taken hold: that the levers of power are not controlled by the people.
    “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

    ~ Omar El Akkad
    ​
  • gary m
    Reprobate
    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
    • 8016

    #2
    It never was nor intended to be, but you already knew that.
    We are so fucked.

    Comment

    • 80zephyr
      Senior Member
      • Saturday, January 3, 2015
      • 19074

      #3
      So, a water company in control of Pissant, Mass. proves America is not a democracy?

      Mark
      Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

      "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

      Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

      Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

      Comment

      • Norm dePlume
        Err foil
        • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
        • 14904

        #4
        Originally posted by gary m View Post
        It never was nor intended to be, but you already knew that.
        Representative democracy is a type of democracy. It was never intended to be a direct democracy. It was founded as a representative democracy. But it used to be representative of the population (granted, the privileged section of the population). Now it's more representative of what money wants.
        Enjoy.

        Comment

        • 80zephyr
          Senior Member
          • Saturday, January 3, 2015
          • 19074

          #5
          Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
          Representative democracy is a type of democracy. It was never intended to be a direct democracy. It was founded as a representative democracy. But it used to be representative of the population (granted, the privileged section of the population). Now it's more representative of what money wants.
          Money wanted Trump to win?

          Mark
          Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

          "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

          Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

          Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

          Comment

          • gary m
            Reprobate
            • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
            • 8016

            #6
            Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
            Representative democracy is a type of democracy. It was never intended to be a direct democracy. It was founded as a representative democracy. But it used to be representative of the population (granted, the privileged section of the population). Now it's more representative of what money wants.
            If we were a representative democracy, I would agree.
            However we are a representative republic as mentioned in and guaranteed by our Constitution.

            One is not exactly like the other.
            We are so fucked.

            Comment

            • Gingersnap
              Resident stylistic consultant
              • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
              • 24058

              #7
              It appears that an unscrupulous company rigged and disrupted a buy-out. That's interesting and wrong but there's not enough information to answer some questions and not enough to generalize that example out to an entire nation.

              I got food poisoning at a catered Vietnamese wedding once. Catering companies shouldn't poison the guests - that's a given but my example doesn't actually "say" anything broad about Vietnamese weddings, the catering industry, or delicious crab dishes.

              This from the article:

              It’s a suspicion stoked by the fact that, across a range of issues, public policy does not reflect the preferences of the majority of Americans. If it did, the country would look radically different: Marijuana would be legal and campaign contributions more tightly regulated; paid parental leave would be the law of the land and public colleges free; the minimum wage would be higher and gun control much stricter; abortions would be more accessible in the early stages of pregnancy and illegal in the third trimester.
              Americans don't actually want all those things with the "maybe" exception of banning third trimester abortion. There's some data on that one. Even support for legal weed is more mixed than one might imagine and I live in a state that did it.

              People are very supportive of more free things - except the people who actually pay for those "free" things. We're still the majority but it's slipping. Outside of some large cities largely run by Democrats, people aren't much interested in more gun control. Paid parental leave is another mixed bag. Childbearing women generally like it, fathers may or may not be much interested (depends on the career), dedicated single people without kids often resent pulling up slack (depends on the career), etc. Inexperienced people like higher minimum wages, employers don't want to pay unskilled workers more, consumers generally don't like the pass-through costs, so another mixed bag. More people probably like term limits than campaign finance reform but we don't know - it's just anecdotal.

              Americans do dislike voter fraud but we disagree on how to best solve that. Americans have a healthy and bipartisan dislike of current political strategies. Americans largely distrust both politicians and journalists who cover politics. Americans are becoming concerned about the effect of social media both on voting behavior and on political coverage - a lot unity on that one.

              That's about it, though.
              "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

              Comment

              • Norm dePlume
                Err foil
                • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                • 14904

                #8
                Originally posted by gary m View Post
                If we were a representative democracy, I would agree.
                However we are a representative republic as mentioned in and guaranteed by our Constitution.

                One is not exactly like the other.
                Explain the difference.
                Enjoy.

                Comment

                • Norm dePlume
                  Err foil
                  • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                  • 14904

                  #9
                  Republic

                  ...

                  In American English, the definition of a republic can also refer specifically to a government in which elected individuals represent the citizen body, known elsewhere as a representative democracy (a democratic republic)[4] and exercise power according to the rule of law (a constitutional republic).
                  Last I checked, the United States constitution specified that elected individuals would exercise power. Democratically elected individuals, who would then act as representatives of the electorate. Representative democracy.
                  Last edited by Norm dePlume; Wednesday, January 31, 2018, 6:16 PM.
                  Enjoy.

                  Comment

                  • Norm dePlume
                    Err foil
                    • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                    • 14904

                    #10
                    Democracy

                    ...

                    Variants


                    ...

                    Republic
                    Main article: Republicanism
                    The term republic has many different meanings, but today often refers to a representative democracy with an elected head of state, such as a president, serving for a limited term, in contrast to states with a hereditary monarch as a head of state, even if these states also are representative democracies with an elected or appointed head of government such as a prime minister.[119]

                    The Founding Fathers of the United States rarely praised and often criticised democracy, which in their time tended to specifically mean direct democracy, often without the protection of a constitution enshrining basic rights; James Madison argued, especially in The Federalist No. 10, that what distinguished a democracy from a republic was that the former became weaker as it got larger and suffered more violently from the effects of faction, whereas a republic could get stronger as it got larger and combats faction by its very structure.

                    What was critical to American values, John Adams insisted,[120] was that the government be "bound by fixed laws, which the people have a voice in making, and a right to defend." As Benjamin Franklin was exiting after writing the U.S. constitution, a woman asked him "Well, Doctor, what have we got—a republic or a monarchy?". He replied "A republic—if you can keep it."[121]
                    Democracy is a broad term. Democracies come in many forms, including Republics. Saying "it's not a democracy, it's a republic" is like saying "it's not a car, it's a Buick."
                    Enjoy.

                    Comment

                    • gary m
                      Reprobate
                      • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                      • 8016

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                      Explain the difference.
                      Google it

                      Not doing your homework, but one functional and important difference is that in a representative democracy, the voters can vote to override the rights of others by rule of law.
                      Example of representative democracy was California Prop 8. Because we are a representative republic with a guarantee of basic rights enshrined in our Constitution that can not be taken away by any will or vote of the people, and our system of a representative republic form of government, it was overturned as unconstitutional.

                      You should be able to take it from there.
                      We are so fucked.

                      Comment

                      • gary m
                        Reprobate
                        • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                        • 8016

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                        Democracy is a broad term. Democracies come in many forms, including Republics. Saying "it's not a democracy, it's a republic" is like saying "it's not a car, it's a Buick."
                        Wrong.
                        Transportation comes in many forms. It's like saying a bike, car, train and stagecoach are all the same because they all can get you from Point A to Point B.

                        ETA:
                        Wikipedia? Really? That is your source?
                        We are so fucked.

                        Comment

                        • Norm dePlume
                          Err foil
                          • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                          • 14904

                          #13
                          Originally posted by gary m View Post
                          Google it

                          Not doing your homework, but one functional and important difference is that in a representative democracy, the voters can vote to override the rights of others by rule of law.
                          Example of representative democracy was California Prop 8. Because we are a representative republic with a guarantee of basic rights enshrined in our Constitution that can not be taken away by any will or vote of the people, and our system of a representative republic form of government, it was overturned as unconstitutional.

                          You should be able to take it from there.
                          Override the rights of others, you say? Like, keeping others as slaves? Or not letting women vote? Stuff like that?
                          Enjoy.

                          Comment

                          • Norm dePlume
                            Err foil
                            • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                            • 14904

                            #14
                            Originally posted by gary m View Post
                            Wikipedia? Really? That is your source?
                            I know you're slow and all, but Wikipedia cites other sources. You can follow their links. I don't know if they can hold a candle to albutrus.org, but still.
                            Enjoy.

                            Comment

                            • gary m
                              Reprobate
                              • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                              • 8016

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                              Override the rights of others, you say? Like, keeping others as slaves? Or not letting women vote? Stuff like that?
                              Never said it was perfect.

                              But also look at Brown, Loving and other democratically enacted laws that were overturned because they violated a republican (small R) form of government.
                              We are so fucked.

                              Comment

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