Americans With Disabilities Act 2018

[Novaheart]

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability-rights/congress-wants-change-americans-disabilities-act-and-undermine-civil-rights

Congress Wants to Change the Americans With Disabilities Act and Undermine the Civil Rights of People With Disabilities


Thoughts? I think it's only fair that a business should be notified of a violation before being sued with the assumption that the negligence is deliberate.

While the ACLU article talks about wheelchair bound people being barred from the corner store or restaurant bathrooms, surely these merchants deserve fair warning. Right? How much should a building or business be required to spend to comply?

[Tom Servo]

As far as I'm aware, businesses are notified now if someone complains about a lack of access, because the vast majority of people with special needs will complain to the business first before filing a lawsuit.

So all this will do is place the nebulous requirement of "substantial progress" as a way to kick reform down the road, allowing businesses to never upgrade their facilities at all. If the way this story is written is accurate (and it's the ACLU, so it might not be) it'll also mean business that remodel existing structures won't have to plan for ADA compliance as part of the work, which means routine progress towards accessibility would be thwarted by cheap owners.

[80zephyr]

Maybe if there was some common sense on some of these regulations. I built an office for an apartment complex and I put the thermostat at normal height. Too high, said the inspector. I told him that any person that worked here could not be confined to a wheelchair because the apartment buildings were two stories high, and that without elevators, a person who shows or works on these units has to be "mobile".

Tough shit, says he. Rip a big hole in the finished wall, and move it. Well, I asked my architect wife about it, who's job it is to actually train the staff where she works on the ADA what I could do to fix it. She told me to simply install a thermostat lock box to cover it, this shows the inspector that only authorized personnel can change the setting.

I have had other situations come up as well.

Thats why when this stuff comes up, I figure there was a reason it did.

Mark

[80zephyr]

As far as I'm aware, businesses are notified now if someone complains about a lack of access, because the vast majority of people with special needs will complain to the business first before filing a lawsuit.

So all this will do is place the nebulous requirement of "substantial progress" as a way to kick reform down the road, allowing businesses to never upgrade their facilities at all. If the way this story is written is accurate (and it's the ACLU, so it might not be) it'll also mean business that remodel existing structures won't have to plan for ADA compliance as part of the work, which means routine progress towards accessibility would be thwarted by cheap owners.

IMO, and the state of Wisconsin's as well, code compliance is set on the day that the building is occupied. And that is as it should be.
Requiring changes after a building is built is a very costly endeavor, and the government, who allowed you to build the building originally, shouldn't be able to come back and make you update after the fact. If you feel they should, then I would say that they should make EVERY building code compliant, including homes. Maybe if it hit non business owners in their wallets, people wouldn't be so quick to pass some of this stuff.

BTW, Wisconsin does mandate code compliance if over 50% of your building is remodeled. So unless you do nothing with a building, code compliance will get there, eventually. And I'm alright with that.

Mark

[phillygirl]

We did some renovations on our office building a few years back. Due to the law, we had to install a handicap ramp. It took almost 3 years for a person with a handicap to actually use it...and he was not our client. Another attorney had a client in a wheelchair and asked to use our office because of the ramp. My partner wanted to put balloons up for the event. $60,000 and 3 years later and it was finally used!

Mostly, it makes deliveries easier, but it has gotten used on occasion. I would suspect approximately once every 2-3 years.

[Lanie]

https://www.aclu.org/blog/disability...e-civil-rights

Congress Wants to Change the Americans With Disabilities Act and Undermine the Civil Rights of People With Disabilities


Thoughts? I think it's only fair that a business should be notified of a violation before being sued with the assumption that the negligence is deliberate.

While the ACLU article talks about wheelchair bound people being barred from the corner store or restaurant bathrooms, surely these merchants deserve fair warning. Right? How much should a building or business be required to spend to comply?

The fair warning is the ADA. Nobody should be denied access. And a lot of people who have disabilities do not have the money to sue anybody and congress knows it. So do these businesses.

[80zephyr]

The fair warning is the ADA. Nobody should be denied access. And a lot of people who have disabilities do not have the money to sue anybody and congress knows it. So do these businesses.

They find lawyers that do ADA cases that don't charge a fee unless they win. Money shouldn't be a deterrent.

Mark

[80zephyr]

We did some renovations on our office building a few years back. Due to the law, we had to install a handicap ramp. It took almost 3 years for a person with a handicap to actually use it...and he was not our client. Another attorney had a client in a wheelchair and asked to use our office because of the ramp. My partner wanted to put balloons up for the event. $60,000 and 3 years later and it was finally used!

Mostly, it makes deliveries easier, but it has gotten used on occasion. I would suspect approximately once every 2-3 years.

We are at the point where the good of the few outweigh the good of the many. Your office ramp is a good example of government overreach.

Mark

[Norm dePlume]

We did some renovations on our office building a few years back. Due to the law, we had to install a handicap ramp. It took almost 3 years for a person with a handicap to actually use it...and he was not our client. Another attorney had a client in a wheelchair and asked to use our office because of the ramp. My partner wanted to put balloons up for the event. $60,000 and 3 years later and it was finally used!

Mostly, it makes deliveries easier, but it has gotten used on occasion. I would suspect approximately once every 2-3 years.

Did you take your tax credit?

[phillygirl]

Did you take your tax credit?

I don't know. It was over 15 years ago, so I have no idea if the tax credit existed at the time or not.

[scott]

The fair warning is the ADA. Nobody should be denied access. And a lot of people who have disabilities do not have the money to sue anybody and congress knows it. So do these businesses.

Nobody?

So the professional hockey team has to have an ADA compliant equipment locker?

What nonsense!

[scott]

Did you take your tax credit?

Does a $5000 tax credit give you an incentive to spend $60,000?

[gary m]

Nobody?

So the professional hockey team has to have an ADA compliant equipment locker?

What nonsense!

This was probably prompted by some ADA suit...

The bank I use has a drive up only ATM. On the ATM are instructions and a keypad in braille.
Now I don't know about you, but I would rather not have blind people, disabled though they may be, driving around and using drive up only ATM's.
Granted they may be better drivers than half the morons I see texting, shaving, applying makeup or reading the morning paper while weaving in and out of traffic at 80 mph+ during morning rush hour, but still...

[Novaheart]

The fair warning is the ADA. Nobody should be denied access. And a lot of people who have disabilities do not have the money to sue anybody and congress knows it. So do these businesses.

Lanie, we could say that but the high end boutiques in Alexandria are exempt because they are in "historic" buildings. I would assume that the same is true for San Francisco. Bed and breakfasts don't seem to be covered either. So it's not like the ADA is eine Grösse.

[Novaheart]

I would love to be able to make a living off suing people for deliberate ADA violations. When we moved to Florida, perhaps the most ADA compliant place on Earth, I was delighted at all the efforts to make it disabled friendly. Even so, St Petersburg has a few sidewalks to nowhere or gaps I call sand traps. Some sidewalks have steep driveway cut out that made it difficult for
Mom on foot, trike, scooter, and eventually wheelchair. Over time these things get fixed. A store that barely yields a living for the owner can't be expected to shell out $60k for a ramp and if you make the landlord do it, he will just charge higher rent.