Prosecutors vow not to bring charges under severe abortion laws

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  • 80zephyr
    Senior Member
    • Saturday, January 3, 2015
    • 19074

    #1

    Prosecutors vow not to bring charges under severe abortion laws

    States are ignoring federal law. Sheriffs are ignoring state laws, and now this. It appears we have reached a point in America where the people in power will abide by the law...or not, depending on what they believe.

    This is extremely dangerous to our country.

    When the SCOTUS decided on Roe versus Wade, they made a grievous miscalculation. They assumed a right that was not in the Constitution, and we have been fighting over it ever since. And every fight erodes our confidence in our laws and our legal system. This is why the supreme court picks have become so important, because the law isn't important anymore. Its what the person who holds the position believes what the law means.

    When women got the right to vote, it was done so Constitutionally. There would be no argument. Now, the court makes up the law as they see fit.

    It will be the death of our country.

    The facts at first seem unambiguous: A motorist is caught with 5 pounds of methamphetamines, a Schedule II controlled substance under Utah’s strict drug laws.

    But Sim Gill, Salt Lake County’s district attorney, would decline to pursue such a hypothetical case if he discovered that the search had been unlawful — conducted without a warrant or in the absence of a reasonable suspicion that a traffic law had been breached.

    Prosecutors should apply similar discretion, Gill argues, and refuse to bring charges under a wave of new abortion restrictions that plainly contradict Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court’s 1973 verdict that a woman has a constitutional right to choose whether to bear a child.

    “We do this all the time, deciding that we have an ethical duty not to prosecute a case because it would be in violation of a constitutional protection afforded to citizens,” Gill, a Democrat, said in an interview with The Washington Post. “What’s new here is that this is an area, abortion, that we typically don’t find ourselves in, because the procedure has not been criminalized like this in recent history.”

    Now that the question has been decisively transformed into one of criminal law — in his state and others that have banned abortion weeks before the viability threshold set forth in Roe — it’s up to prosecutors to “stand up for institutional integrity in these charged times,” Gill said.

    “We cannot put people in jail for this,” he maintained.
    Rest at link.



    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

    Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.
  • Norm dePlume
    Err foil
    • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
    • 14904

    #2
    I'm pretty sure the whole intent of these laws is to generate a SCOTUS challenge and a run at reversing Roe v. Wade, so it makes sense that prosecutors would let that play out first.

    Also, I remember a time not so long ago when pro-lifers said Trump was wrong for saying that women seeking abortions should be punished. And he walked it back.
    Enjoy.

    Comment

    • 80zephyr
      Senior Member
      • Saturday, January 3, 2015
      • 19074

      #3
      Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
      I'm pretty sure the whole intent of these laws is to generate a SCOTUS challenge and a run at reversing Roe v. Wade, so it makes sense that prosecutors would let that play out first.

      Also, I remember a time not so long ago when pro-lifers said Trump was wrong for saying that women seeking abortions should be punished. And he walked it back.
      That is not the question. The question is that whenever someone doesn't agree with the law today, they simply refuse to abide by it.

      If that is whats happening, who cares whether Roe vs Wade is overturned? Like Sanctuary cities, the states will do what they want.

      Mark
      Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

      "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

      Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

      Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

      Comment

      • Norm dePlume
        Err foil
        • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
        • 14904

        #4
        Originally posted by 80zephyr View Post
        That is not the question. The question is that whenever someone doesn't agree with the law today, they simply refuse to abide by it.

        If that is whats happening, who cares whether Roe vs Wade is overturned? Like Sanctuary cities, the states will do what they want.

        Mark
        Yeah, well, your world view notwithstanding, people do care whether or not Roe is overturned. Lots of people, on both sides of the issue.
        Enjoy.

        Comment

        • 80zephyr
          Senior Member
          • Saturday, January 3, 2015
          • 19074

          #5
          Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
          Yeah, well, your world view notwithstanding, people do care whether or not Roe is overturned. Lots of people, on both sides of the issue.
          The trend seems to be that if you don't like a law, don't follow it.

          If Alabama refused to follow any ruling by the Supreme Court, what difference will it make?

          Mark
          Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

          "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

          Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

          Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

          Comment

          • Gingersnap
            Resident stylistic consultant
            • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
            • 24058

            #6
            The original intention of states' rights was that each state could run its own "experiment". The state would prosper or decline depending on whether the experiment worked out. If it worked out, other states could adopt whatever it was.

            That still seems reasonable to me. Let some states restrict abortion or soda sales or hike taxes or have open carry or boot the Department of Education. Let's see how it goes. Give it 10 years and document the results.

            If California wants to embrace all illegal aliens and deal with the wage suppression and cultural problems, let them. If states want to restrict abortion, let them. If some state decides the hourly wage is zero unless the worker adds value, let them.

            These things will succeed or fail without some D.C. think tank managing the hype around potential outcomes. Let's just see the outcomes.
            "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

            Comment

            • phillygirl
              Not superior, just kind
              • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
              • 19840

              #7
              Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
              I'm pretty sure the whole intent of these laws is to generate a SCOTUS challenge and a run at reversing Roe v. Wade, so it makes sense that prosecutors would let that play out first.

              Also, I remember a time not so long ago when pro-lifers said Trump was wrong for saying that women seeking abortions should be punished. And he walked it back.
              My initial reaction to the headline was that I would have a hard time, as a prosecutor, pursuing a conviction of a woman who had an abortion under some of the newest laws. I would go after the doctor, though.
              Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
              Robert Southwell, S.J.

              Comment

              • Billy Jingo
                I shave with Occam's Razor
                • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                • 18663

                #8
                Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
                The original intention of states' rights was that each state could run its own "experiment". The state would prosper or decline depending on whether the experiment worked out. If it worked out, other states could adopt whatever it was.

                That still seems reasonable to me. Let some states restrict abortion or soda sales or hike taxes or have open carry or boot the Department of Education. Let's see how it goes. Give it 10 years and document the results.

                If California wants to embrace all illegal aliens and deal with the wage suppression and cultural problems, let them. If states want to restrict abortion, let them. If some state decides the hourly wage is zero unless the worker adds value, let them.

                These things will succeed or fail without some D.C. think tank managing the hype around potential outcomes. Let's just see the outcomes.
                Careful what you wish for. California is a big market and can demand a great deal more than Wyoming to do business there.

                But cheer up. You can get back at them by polluting their drinking water. Upstream, of course.
                “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                ~ Omar El Akkad
                ​

                Comment

                • Billy Jingo
                  I shave with Occam's Razor
                  • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                  • 18663

                  #9
                  Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
                  My initial reaction to the headline was that I would have a hard time, as a prosecutor, pursuing a conviction of a woman who had an abortion under some of the newest laws. I would go after the doctor, though.
                  Prosecute the drug dealer, not the drug user?
                  “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                  ~ Omar El Akkad
                  ​

                  Comment

                  • Lady Marva
                    Senior Member
                    • Wednesday, June 17, 2015
                    • 13321

                    #10
                    Ehhhhhhhhh, well, law enforcement pretty much has whatever judgement it want to use about whatever...………….

                    Comment

                    • Gingersnap
                      Resident stylistic consultant
                      • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                      • 24058

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                      Careful what you wish for. California is a big market and can demand a great deal more than Wyoming to do business there.

                      But cheer up. You can get back at them by polluting their drinking water. Upstream, of course.
                      So that's the way law should work: whoever uses the most force gets to win? On everything?

                      As human beings we've done it that way for thousands of years. That's the basic frame work for governance all around the globe until recently.

                      I'm unsurprised that you favor rule by force.

                      If most women think this is their primary issue, they will naturally leave states that restrict abortion and move to states that don't. That's fair. I don't live in New Jersey for many reasons but I'd never move there for financial reasons. New Jersey will somehow limp along without my presence.

                      I don't think this is a driving issue for most women. Some are decidedly pro-life, others find that their contraception choices are fine, others aren't having sex or are too old/infertile to make it an issue personally.

                      The major reproductive issue for many women in the USA today is infertility, not unwanted conception. Women wait later and later to conceive and often that bet doesn't pay off even with IVF. They'd like to adopt but there are no little kids available. Thanks to CPS regulations most adoptable kids are teens. Infants, including disabled infants, are snatched up immediately.

                      I think that's the reality today. Teens and young women are well aware of contraception beyond condoms and understand that they can buy Plan B OTC. Abortions have been dropping for many years in most demographics. Single motherhood no longer has a stigma (in some demographics it's the norm).

                      Despite the hype by the media and on the part of activist celebs, this isn't the most important issue for most women.
                      "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

                      Comment

                      • phillygirl
                        Not superior, just kind
                        • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                        • 19840

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                        Prosecute the drug dealer, not the drug user?
                        Something like that. For most women that choose it, their personal circumstances are not usually conducive to well thought out plans at that point.
                        Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                        Robert Southwell, S.J.

                        Comment

                        • Michele
                          Senior Member
                          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                          • 13964

                          #13
                          Have states passed laws that will criminally charge women who have abortions?
                          May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
                          Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
                          And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
                          may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

                          Comment

                          • Adam
                            The way to a woman's heart is through her taste buds.
                            • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                            • 16885

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Michele View Post
                            Have states passed laws that will criminally charge women who have abortions?
                            No, but the meme must be advanced at all costs: "Donald Trump will personally execute any woman who has a miscarriage, because TRRRUUUUUUUUMMMMMPPPP!!!!111!!!11!"
                            It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                            In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                            Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                            Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                            Comment

                            • Billy Jingo
                              I shave with Occam's Razor
                              • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                              • 18663

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Michele View Post
                              Have states passed laws that will criminally charge women who have abortions?
                              While Georgia's law does not explicitly state that women will be prosecuted (that I am aware of) but there are consequences to conferring personhood on the individual in the womb. At that point, murder is murder, isn't it?
                              “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                              ~ Omar El Akkad
                              ​

                              Comment

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