What the King of Hawaii Can Teach Us About Trump

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  • Billy Jingo
    I shave with Occam's Razor
    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
    • 18663

    #1

    What the King of Hawaii Can Teach Us About Trump

    What the King of Hawaii Can Teach Us About Trump

    A political fable from 1819.


    To the ever-expanding literature of How to Explain Trump, I’d like to add a short little fable. It was first told 35 years ago by Alasdair MacIntyre, one of our greatest living philosophers, but it concerns an actual event that took place in the kingdom of Hawaii in 1819, many years before it was annexed by the United States. MacIntyre didn’t really intend it to be a story about politics, but I think it speaks to our political moment more directly than any op-ed you’ll read, because it’s a story about the rules we take for granted, and about what happens when those rules become hollow.

    Once, in the kingdom of Hawaii, there was a set of unwritten rules—whose name English-speaking writers spelled “taboo”—that governed all kinds of everyday activities. One of them, for instance, forbade men and women from eating together; others forbade certain foods. In 1819, a new king, Kamehameha II, came to the throne and decided to do away with the taboos. The rules had held sway for longer than anyone could remember, and many predicted a tremendous backlash if the king went through with his plan. But Kamehameha was adamant: He declared that the taboos were abolished, and so they were.

    And nothing else happened. That’s the story.

    I can’t be the only one who has lost count of the democratic norms—the unwritten, informal, but hugely important rules that help us govern ourselves—that now seem to be gone with as little consequence as the taboos in the story. If you’re running for president, you don’t even raise the possibility that the election won’t count if you don’t win. You don’t threaten to throw your opponent in jail if you do win. If you change your mind about throwing your opponent in jail, you don’t explain it as an act of mercy, because that’s not how the rule of law works. If you’re running for president, and especially if you get elected, you release your tax returns, so voters can know that you’re not financially compromised by foreign governments, or by corporations seeking to do business with the United States. You put your assets in a blind trust, so you never confuse your self-interest with the public interest. You don’t accuse millions of Americans of voter fraud without evidence. You don’t compromise civilian control of the armed forces. You don’t let your team threaten to lock up journalists who investigate you.

    You don’t do those things, until, one day, you do. The only thing holding you back in most cases is the force of custom, and there are times and places—Hawaii in 1819, or America in 2016—when custom is so weak that it’s no force at all.

    Of course, Donald Trump didn’t need to be a political genius to realize that norms like these were historically weak. He only needed to watch the news. In just the last eight years, we’ve watched the unthinkable become the debatable and then the unexceptionable. We’ve seen President Barack Obama’s Supreme Court nominee denied even a hearing for nearly a year, and we’ve seen his other nominees blockaded at an historic rate. We’ve seen real, live U.S. senators promise that no justice nominated by a Democratic president would ever be confirmed. We’ve seen credible threats to default on the national debt. We’ve seen the president’s budget director denied even the right to propose a budget to Congress. We’ve seen the president expand executive power in response to all of this, in a way that’s troubling even to some liberals. We’ve seen the Senate filibuster go from rare to routine—and watched Senate Democrats retaliate by partially nuking the filibuster. It was laughable when a member of Congress interrupted the State of the Union to call the president a liar—until a movement calling the president a liar about his birthplace launched his successor to power.

    In the end, we have seen all of it work.
    “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

    ~ Omar El Akkad
    ​
  • phillygirl
    Not superior, just kind
    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
    • 19840

    #2
    you release your tax returns, so voters can know that you’re not financially compromised by foreign governments, or by corporations seeking to do business with the United States.
    It seems to me that this is a forgotten issue. During most of the prior elections, people seemed unduly concerned with the level of wealth of the individuals running for office and whether or not they had paid taxes or contributed sufficiently to charity.
    Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
    Robert Southwell, S.J.

    Comment

    • Djharkavy
      Senior Member
      • Saturday, October 31, 2015
      • 4286

      #3
      Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
      It seems to me that this is a forgotten issue. During most of the prior elections, people seemed unduly concerned with the level of wealth of the individuals running for office and whether or not they had paid taxes or contributed sufficiently to charity.
      During most of the prior elections, the candidates had a public track record and were not running on their wealth and business acumen.

      Nonetheless, it clearly isn't an issue, as he won without revealing his information.

      Sent from my phone, using Tapatalk.
      All mistakes are caused by the phone.
      That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

      Comment

      • scott
        Go-to Guru
        • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
        • 15799

        #4
        Originally posted by Djharkavy View Post
        During most of the prior elections, the candidates had a public track record and were not running on their wealth and business acumen.

        Nonetheless, it clearly isn't an issue, as he won without revealing his information.

        Sent from my phone, using Tapatalk.
        All mistakes are caused by the phone.
        That's my story and I'm sticking to it...
        To the benefit of his detractors demanding that he prove their accusations wrong. You folks got a big gift there.
        "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
        -John Locke

        "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
        -Newman

        "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
        -Newman

        Comment

        • Michele
          Senior Member
          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
          • 13964

          #5
          Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
          It seems to me that this is a forgotten issue. During most of the prior elections, people seemed unduly concerned with the level of wealth of the individuals running for office and whether or not they had paid taxes or contributed sufficiently to charity.
          I think voters were so disgusted with the lies that Reid told about Romney that they not only didn't care about Trump's returns but they pushed back against someone like Hillary and her apologists trying to make it an issue.
          May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
          Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
          And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
          may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

          Comment

          • Norm dePlume
            Err foil
            • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
            • 14904

            #6
            Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
            It seems to me that this is a forgotten issue. During most of the prior elections, people seemed unduly concerned with the level of wealth of the individuals running for office and whether or not they had paid taxes or contributed sufficiently to charity.
            So, this has been a norm for the last 40 years or so, right? Was it wrongheaded for the last 40 years to expect candidates to make their tax returns public? Or was it the right thing to do back then, but not anymore?
            Enjoy.

            Comment

            • Billy Jingo
              I shave with Occam's Razor
              • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
              • 18663

              #7
              It is actually a pretty interesting piece. The individual taboos themselves that were broken do not really matter. What matters is that they were broken and what that means.

              I personally thought "Merrick Garland" would be the death knell of the republic as we know it. And maybe it is. But it is also possible that the republic is fine. It has just entered a more balkanized and ineffective state where governing no longer exists in the sense that those who represent us do so with integrity. We may be in a period of rule where honor, patriotism, social obligations, and many democratic norms we have grown accustomed to have been discarded in favor of naked brutalism and the use of power purely for the self interests of those that seize it. And if so, what does that mean for us as a society?
              “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

              ~ Omar El Akkad
              ​

              Comment

              • Norm dePlume
                Err foil
                • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                • 14904

                #8
                Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                It is actually a pretty interesting piece. The individual taboos themselves that were broken do not really matter. What matters is that they were broken and what that means.

                I personally thought "Merrick Garland" would be the death knell of the republic as we know it. And maybe it is. But it is also possible that the republic is fine. It has just entered a more balkanized and ineffective state where governing no longer exists in the sense that those who represent us do so with integrity. We may be in a period of rule where honor, patriotism, social obligations, and many democratic norms we have grown accustomed to have been discarded in favor of naked brutalism and the use of power purely for the self interests of those that seize it. And if so, what does that mean for us as a society?
                It certainly doesn't fit any definition of "conservatism" to gleefully abandon longstanding norms of public behavior.

                From a supporter's point of view, I imagine the picture is that all the same underlying principles are still in effect, just without all the nettlesome care about offending somebody. Like some abrasive uncle at a family gathering who tells dirty jokes -- he might be a bit uncouth, but you're pretty sure his heart is in the right place.
                Enjoy.

                Comment

                • Billy Jingo
                  I shave with Occam's Razor
                  • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                  • 18663

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                  It certainly doesn't fit any definition of "conservatism" to gleefully abandon longstanding norms of public behavior.

                  From a supporter's point of view, I imagine the picture is that all the same underlying principles are still in effect, just without all the nettlesome care about offending somebody. Like some abrasive uncle at a family gathering who tells dirty jokes -- he might be a bit uncouth, but you're pretty sure his heart is in the right place.
                  You appear to be arguing that the norms still exist and we are just giving Republicans a pass; things will right themselves soon. I am inclined to disagree and side with the author. I believe they are gone, they aren't coming back, and we need to get used to the idea. Even "conservative" and "liberal" are no longer legitimate as effective labels as we understand the terms. If you try to square the actions of Republicans with your understanding of the word "conservative," you will only be confused. The same can be said of Democrats and the word "liberal" as well but I really don't know if that conversation can be had on this message board.
                  “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                  ~ Omar El Akkad
                  ​

                  Comment

                  • Billy Jingo
                    I shave with Occam's Razor
                    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                    • 18663

                    #10
                    I believe the norms were discarded almost two decades ago and the Democrats have not caught on to that fact. And they are losing. Badly. Shumer's statements on Trump's (eventual) Supreme Court nominee appears to bear that out. He hasn't caught on.

                    I joked that Trump always wins because he has no shame and his opponents do. Perhaps the joke has more depth than I thought.
                    “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                    ~ Omar El Akkad
                    ​

                    Comment

                    • Norm dePlume
                      Err foil
                      • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                      • 14904

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                      You appear to be arguing that the norms still exist and we are just giving Republicans a pass; things will right themselves soon. I am inclined to disagree and side with the author. I believe they are gone, they aren't coming back, and we need to get used to the idea. Even "conservative" and "liberal" are no longer legitimate as effective labels as we understand the terms. If you try to square the actions of Republicans with your understanding of the word "conservative," you will only be confused. The same can be said of Democrats and the word "liberal" as well but I really don't know if that conversation can be had on this message board.
                      That was me being empathetic. I was imagining a world view that would allow a person to see Trump chucking off political norms without being concerned. And the world view that I imagined is one where the norms he's chucked off are more style than substance. Like showing tax returns doesn't have any practical importance; it's just etiquette.

                      That's what I imagine other people think. It isn't what I think.
                      Enjoy.

                      Comment

                      • Norm dePlume
                        Err foil
                        • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                        • 14904

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                        I believe the norms were discarded almost two decades ago and the Democrats have not caught on to that fact. And they are losing. Badly. Shumer's statements on Trump's (eventual) Supreme Court nominee appears to bear that out. He hasn't caught on.

                        I joked that Trump always wins because he has no shame and his opponents do. Perhaps the joke has more depth than I thought.
                        It's an ongoing process. And it seems to correlate with the polarization of congress.

                        Enjoy.

                        Comment

                        • Billy Jingo
                          I shave with Occam's Razor
                          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                          • 18663

                          #13
                          Even the little things .....
                          “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                          ~ Omar El Akkad
                          ​

                          Comment

                          • phillygirl
                            Not superior, just kind
                            • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                            • 19840

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                            Relevance?
                            Not where I breathe, but where I love, I live...
                            Robert Southwell, S.J.

                            Comment

                            • Billy Jingo
                              I shave with Occam's Razor
                              • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                              • 18663

                              #15
                              Originally posted by phillygirl View Post
                              Relevance?
                              Just a minor lament. Nothing serious. Everyone has their symbols. For some, it's a Christmas tree; others, it's baseball.
                              “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                              ~ Omar El Akkad
                              ​

                              Comment

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