Trump just ended a long tradition of celebrating Ramadan at the White House

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  • Lady Marva
    Senior Member
    • Wednesday, June 17, 2015
    • 13321

    #1

    Trump just ended a long tradition of celebrating Ramadan at the White House

    Long tradition? Two whole decades.............

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...cid=spartanntp
    In the early days of December 1805, a handful of prominent politicians received formal invitations to join President Thomas Jefferson for a White House dinner.

    Such*entreaties*were not uncommon: Jefferson frequently hosted lawmakers for political working dinners at the White House, almost always commencing them about 3:30 in the afternoon, shortly after the House or Senate had adjourned for the day.
    Keep up on politics with The Washington Post's 5-Minute Fix newsletter
    But this gathering, scheduled for Dec. 9, would be slightly different.
    “dinner will be on the table precisely at sun-set — ” the invitations read. “The favour of an answer is asked.”
    The occasion*was the presence of a Tunisian envoy to the United States, Sidi Soliman Mellimelli, who had arrived in the country just the week before, in the midst of America’s ongoing conflict with what were then known as the Barbary States.
    And*the reason for the dinner’s later-than-usual start was Mellimelli’s observance of Ramadan, a holy month for Muslims in which observers fast between dawn and dusk. Only after sunset do Muslims break their fast with a meal, referred to*as an iftar.
    Jefferson’s decision to change the time of the meal to accommodate Mellimelli’s observance of Ramadan has been seized on by both sides in the 21st-century debate over Islam more than 200 years later. Historians have cited the meal as the first time an iftar took place in the White House — and it has been referenced in recent White House celebrations of Ramadan as an embodiment of the Founding Father’s respect for religious freedom. Meanwhile, critics on the far right have taken issue with the characterization of Jefferson’s Dec. 9, 1805, dinner as an iftar.

    Whatever Jefferson could have foreseen for the young country’s future, it appears the modern-day White House tradition of marking Ramadan with an iftar dinner or Eid celebration has come to*an end.
    Ramadan, which falls on the ninth month of the Islamic lunar calendar, started on May 27 this year and ends at sundown Saturday. Muslims around the world will mark the end of the holy month by celebrating the holiday Eid al-Fitr, the “feast of breaking of the fast.”

    For the first time in nearly two decades, Ramadan has come and gone without the White House recognizing it with an iftar or Eid celebration, as had taken place each year under the Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations. In recent weeks, several former White House staff members told The Post they would usually begin planning an iftar “months in advance” and*didn’t anticipate the Trump White House could pull something off before the end of Ramadan.
    White House officials did not respond to repeated requests for comment.

    In late May, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson reportedly said the State Department would break with recent tradition and not host a Ramadan reception, as it had done nearly annually for two decades. On Saturday, Tillerson released a brief statement sending “best wishes to all Muslims celebrating Eid al-Fitr.”
    “This holiday marks the culmination of Ramadan, a month in which many experience meaning and inspiration in acts of fasting, prayer, and charity,” Tillerson said in the statement. “This day offers an opportunity to reflect on our shared commitment to building peaceful and prosperous communities. Eid Mubarak.”
    Tillerson’s brief remarks — and Trump’s silence as Eid approached — was in stark contrast to Obama, who released a lengthy statement for the holiday last year.
    Continued at link.
  • Celeste Chalfonte
    apostate
    • Saturday, October 5, 2013
    • 27897

    #2
    Accommodating the religious observance of a diplomatic guest, as Jefferson did, is basic courtesy, respect and diplomacy. Imitating the religious observance of any or all religious factions is more troublesome, and more trouble. How does a President avoid slighting someone? Does the President, for example, customarily observe Yom Kippur or hold a seder for Passover? Or does he throw out a generic footnote to Christmas and Easter for Chanukkah and Passover and call it good?

    Better to keep actual religious observance private and limited to the customary religious practice, if any, of the President and his family. Fewer opportunities for blunders, less chance of offending anyone. Of course, good luck getting re-elected to any President who fails to make a big deal of the National Day of [Christian] Prayer.
    "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

    Comment

    • scott
      Go-to Guru
      • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
      • 15799

      #3
      Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
      Accommodating the religious observance of a diplomatic guest, as Jefferson did, is basic courtesy, respect and diplomacy. Imitating the religious observance of any or all religious factions is more troublesome, and more trouble. How does a President avoid slighting someone? Does the President, for example, customarily observe Yom Kippur or hold a seder for Passover? Or does he throw out a generic footnote to Christmas and Easter for Chanukkah and Passover and call it good?

      Better to keep actual religious observance private and limited to the customary religious practice, if any, of the President and his family. Fewer opportunities for blunders, less chance of offending anyone. Of course, good luck getting re-elected to any President who fails to make a big deal of the National Day of [Christian] Prayer.
      We're not at war with Islam. Bush '43 did this part correctly. Trump and Obama? Not so much.

      I hate bigots.
      "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
      -John Locke

      "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
      -Newman

      "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
      -Newman

      Comment

      • Celeste Chalfonte
        apostate
        • Saturday, October 5, 2013
        • 27897

        #4
        Originally posted by scott View Post
        We're not at war with Islam. Bush '43 did this part correctly. Trump and Obama? Not so much.

        I hate bigots.
        Elucidate. What does "at war with" have to do with anything? What did Bush do that Obama and Trump did not, or did differently?

        I, too, despise bigots, but I'm not following: to whom were you referring?
        "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

        Comment

        • 80zephyr
          Senior Member
          • Saturday, January 3, 2015
          • 19074

          #5
          Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
          Elucidate. What does "at war with" have to do with anything? What did Bush do that Obama and Trump did not, or did differently?

          I, too, despise bigots, but I'm not following: to whom were you referring?
          Everyone is a bigot...even you.

          Mark
          Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

          "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

          Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

          Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

          Comment

          • Celeste Chalfonte
            apostate
            • Saturday, October 5, 2013
            • 27897

            #6
            Originally posted by 80zephyr View Post
            Everyone is a bigot...even you.
            Get a new refrain, we've all heard this one.
            "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

            Comment

            • Norm dePlume
              Err foil
              • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
              • 14904

              #7
              Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
              Does the President, for example, customarily observe Yom Kippur or hold a seder for Passover? Or does he throw out a generic footnote to Christmas and Easter for Chanukkah and Passover and call it good?
              Yes, yes, and no.
              Enjoy.

              Comment

              • Celeste Chalfonte
                apostate
                • Saturday, October 5, 2013
                • 27897

                #8
                Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                Yes, yes, and no.
                Why?
                "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

                Comment

                • Adam
                  The way to a woman's heart is through her taste buds.
                  • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                  • 16885

                  #9
                  I have to agree with Celeste on this one. Make cultural observations when some foreign leader is in town if that's appropriate, but the President can't spend the entirety of a Presidency just ping-ponging from one cultural or religious observation to another. As memory serves, on one or two occasions, when some French leader has been in DC, we have made a perfunctory nod to Bastille Day, for example, but that hardly means that we have to do that every year. Same would go for a bajillion other observances: Canada Day, Cinco de Mayo (yes, that can of worms again), Boxing Day, the Autumnal Equinox, All Saints Day ... the list is endless. There is virtually no day on the calendar that isn't some sort of holiday for someone, somewhere. Are we going to trouble ourselves with stopping everything at the White House on the second Saturday of June every year so that we can honor the official birthday of the queen of Tuvalu? What about shutting down the IRS just before tax day because of Vaisakhi? Or stopping everything in early July because of Asalha Puja?

                  It's simply not practical to do all of that on a non-stop basis. At some point, even the highest office that is directly responsible for diplomatic outreach around the world has to say that they can't possibly honor every single holiday, religious, secular, or cultural.

                  Ramadan is a month-long event. There's just no way to reasonably integrate that into American culture. If a President wants to pick some day or other to spend an hour or two meeting with some prominent Imam or whatever in a symbolic gesture, then fine, but I don't think that they should be obligated to do that, any more than I think that any President has some sort of obligation to meet with, say, Cardinal Dolan (sp?) of New York, despite how much I like and admire the guy, or either Billy or Franklin Graham, even though I like them both very much.
                  It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                  In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                  Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                  Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                  Comment

                  • 80zephyr
                    Senior Member
                    • Saturday, January 3, 2015
                    • 19074

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
                    Get a new refrain, we've all heard this one.
                    Well then, maybe you should get a new refrain as well. Most "bigots" are just like you.

                    You don't get to choose who a bigot is simply by following you own moral code and applying it to others.

                    Mark
                    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

                    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

                    Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

                    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

                    Comment

                    • Celeste Chalfonte
                      apostate
                      • Saturday, October 5, 2013
                      • 27897

                      #11
                      Originally posted by 80zephyr View Post
                      Well then, maybe you should get a new refrain as well. Most "bigots" are just like you.

                      You don't get to choose who a bigot is simply by following you own moral code and applying it to others.
                      Yeah, yeah. How about I say you won the thread so you can run along and rag on someone else? Some of us are trying to have an adult discussion here.
                      "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

                      Comment

                      • 80zephyr
                        Senior Member
                        • Saturday, January 3, 2015
                        • 19074

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
                        Yeah, yeah. How about I say you won the thread so you can run along and rag on someone else? Some of us are trying to have an adult discussion here.
                        Adults consider another point of view. If you view any group with contempt, you are in fact a bigot.

                        I don't make the definitions Celeste, I just follow them.

                        Mark
                        Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

                        "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

                        Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

                        Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

                        Comment

                        • 80zephyr
                          Senior Member
                          • Saturday, January 3, 2015
                          • 19074

                          #13
                          Another point to consider about bigotry. If a person feels that an activity is immoral and unnatural, they have every right to feel the way they do.

                          If you don't like blacks as a group, you are a bigot. They cannot chose their color. If you CHOSE to engage in an unnatural or immoral act, that would be YOUR fault, not the fault of the people making those judgements about you.

                          Pretty easy really.

                          Mark
                          Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

                          "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

                          Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

                          Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

                          Comment

                          • Celeste Chalfonte
                            apostate
                            • Saturday, October 5, 2013
                            • 27897

                            #14
                            Originally posted by 80zephyr View Post
                            Another point to consider about bigotry. If a person feels that an activity is immoral and unnatural, they have every right to feel the way they do.

                            If you don't like blacks as a group, you are a bigot. They cannot chose their color. If you CHOSE to engage in an unnatural or immoral act, that would be YOUR fault, not the fault of the people making those judgements about you.

                            Pretty easy really.
                            If everything seems simple to you, it may be you who is simple.
                            "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

                            Comment

                            • 80zephyr
                              Senior Member
                              • Saturday, January 3, 2015
                              • 19074

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
                              If everything seems simple to you, it may be you who is simple.
                              Logic and rational thought is simple. Everything else is bullshit and obfuscation.

                              Mark
                              Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

                              "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

                              Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

                              Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

                              Comment

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