Bet on Palin: Why Her Libel Suit Against the New York Times Has Merit

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  • Newman
    Behind the Iron Curtain
    • Friday, November 1, 2013
    • 25814

    #1

    Bet on Palin: Why Her Libel Suit Against the New York Times Has Merit

    Conventional opinion is that Sarah Palin must climb a steep hill in her fight with the New York Times. For a person of prominence to win a libel action against a big media company is so difficult that few are willing to try, and the nastiness of litigation discourages even the most intrepid, if they have any sense.
    The concatenation of her unique public position and the bizarre facts of her case have served up a chance to strike a blow in the bitter contest between the Mainstream Media and the conservative movement by highlighting the extent to which the MSM has deliberately embraced a political and business strategy of fake news, and Palin is seizing it.

    Current libel law doctrine might make it hard for her to win, but four additional factors make the case worth bringing.
    Writer James DeLong here is a Harvard Law grad who goes into some detail here to support his case. For example:
    The Legal Standard

    The fundamentals of libel law are the province of the individual states, but with an important qualification. In the classic case New York Times v. Sullivan (1964), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment limits a state’s ability to hold a media outlet liable for libel. A defamed plaintiff who is a “public figure” must show by clear and convincing evidence that the statement was not only false but that the media outlet either knew of the falsity or was recklessly indifferent.

    The court named this standard “actual malice,” which has confused discussion for over 50 years. The test has nothing do with “malice” in the conventional sense of “ill-will”—it would be better named “knowledge.” However, malice as ill-will is highly relevant to state laws, because ill-will can be used as an element of proof that a defendant was motivated to ignore warning signals, and as a basis for punitive damages. As a further complication, a daring defendant could assert its own ill-will as a defense—the plaintiff was so loathsome that the defendant was ready believe anything, and therefore did not consider the possibility that information was false.

    The Supreme Court’s definition of “reckless indifference” also fits poorly with common sense, and is more stringent than most people would expect. In cases after Sullivan, the court elaborated that a failure to meet accepted professional standards for reporting is not automatically reckless indifference, nor is a failure to investigate. The defendant must have some subjective reason to doubt the truth of the allegation. (St. Amant v. Thompson (1968); Harte-Hanks v. Connaughton (1989).)

    An old joke among news reporters is that something could be “too good to check,” meaning that a story was so entertaining that the reporter would be disappointed if he was unable to confirm it. Once upon a time, this was indeed a joke. The reporters laughed, but checked—usually.

    Now, under the relentless pressures of the need for Internet clicks, he who checks not only risks losing the race, but might uncover reason to doubt the story, which is a bad thing indeed because it would trigger a need for more checking.

    The media have adopted too-good-to-check as standard practice, relying on Sullivan and its progeny as their constitutional shield. The question that must be answered sooner or later is how solid this constitutional shield will be when the Supreme Court takes up a really egregious case. The decisions saying that failure to comply with common journalistic practices or failure to fully investigate were not “reckless indifference” did not really test the question. In each, defendants had acted with some degree of responsibility.

    In the end, the “too-good-to-check” standard will fail, as an affront to common sense. As a thought experiment, consider the odds that a defendant could win in the Supreme Court by testifying: “I got a tip from a political enemy that the plaintiff was a crook and did not check it out because I was afraid I would find out she lied, and the Supreme Court says I had no duty to investigate as long as no one has told me she lied. Besides, the plaintiff is so loathsome that any accusation is inherently believable.”

    Good luck with that line of defense. And sure enough, comb the fine print of the Supreme Court reports, and you find St. Amant (1979), in which the justices affirmed the broad rule that the defendant is immune unless it can be shown to have “entertained serious doubts,” but then morphed this into a more general concept of “good faith”:
    Internal links aplenty for the punctilious.

    Meanwhile, for me, outside the castle walls with my pitchfork and tucker bag, waiting for me billy to boil, nothing could be sweeter than a quick, sharp win by the beleaguered Palin.
    • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
    • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
    • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
    • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
    • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
    • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
    • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
  • Djharkavy
    Senior Member
    • Saturday, October 31, 2015
    • 4286

    #2
    Be careful what you wish for. A loosening of the requirements for libel could result in many of your favorite sources being shut down as a result of lawsuits.

    Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

    Comment

    • Newman
      Behind the Iron Curtain
      • Friday, November 1, 2013
      • 25814

      #3
      Originally posted by Djharkavy View Post
      Be careful what you wish for. A loosening of the requirements for libel could result in many of your favorite sources being shut down as a result of lawsuits.

      Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
      There's a great deal of slack between curbing the salacious tabloid garbage about celebrities and shuttering legit news orgs. The NYT (& co.) could benefit by a smart smack in the tuchas. From the days when Howell Raines would "flood the zone" and concoct stories, the Old Gray Lady has become to accustomed to undue leeway.
      • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
      • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
      • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
      • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
      • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
      • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
      • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
      • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
      • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

      Comment

      • Tom Servo
        Area Man
        • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
        • 5898

        #4
        Originally posted by Djharkavy View Post
        Be careful what you wish for. A loosening of the requirements for libel could result in many of your favorite sources being shut down as a result of lawsuits.
        If the same interpretation of libel could be used to shut down the snowflakes behind Breitbart, it might be worth it.
        “Any sufficiently advanced capitalism is indistinguishable from rent seeking.” ~ =j

        Comment

        • Djharkavy
          Senior Member
          • Saturday, October 31, 2015
          • 4286

          #5
          Originally posted by Newman View Post
          There's a great deal of slack between curbing the salacious tabloid garbage about celebrities and shuttering legit news orgs. The NYT (& co.) could benefit by a smart smack in the tuchas. From the days when Howell Raines would "flood the zone" and concoct stories, the Old Gray Lady has become to accustomed to undue leeway.
          Not really.

          There are occasional errors, and they occur more commonly these days as news organizations have to compete with blogs, but despite the successful propaganda of the right, the "Old Grey Lady" is still one of the better news sources.
          I was thinking more along the same lines as Tom
          Originally posted by Tom Servo View Post
          If the same interpretation of libel could be used to shut down the snowflakes behind Breitbart, it might be worth it.
          And dozens of other right wing sources who knowingly misrepresent stories that then wind up being presented here.

          Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • Michele
            Senior Member
            • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
            • 13964

            #6
            The NYT blended their op-ed page with front page news a while ago. They are not "better news" by far. They colluded with the Clinton campaign and created propaganda instead of actual independent news in the last election.

            Granted, they're not the only msm to have done what they did but they are one of the loudest when it comes to shouting about their holier-than-thou credentials.
            May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
            Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
            And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
            may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

            Comment

            • Norm dePlume
              Err foil
              • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
              • 14904

              #7
              Originally posted by Newman View Post
              Writer James DeLong here is a Harvard Law grad who goes into some detail here to support his case. For example:
              Internal links aplenty for the punctilious.

              Meanwhile, for me, outside the castle walls with my pitchfork and tucker bag, waiting for me billy to boil, nothing could be sweeter than a quick, sharp win by the beleaguered Palin.
              She's suing the NYT for an editorial that mentions her her crosshair map as "political incitement" linked to the Gabby Giffords shooting. Now, for someone who denies such links, that might appear libelous. But you? Aren't you the guy who proclaimed that Al Sharpton has blood on his hands when two NY cops got shot? Because he said something like "don't cut your gloves off"?
              Enjoy.

              Comment

              • Norm dePlume
                Err foil
                • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                • 14904

                #8
                Here's a couple of tweets relevant to the case:



                Enjoy.

                Comment

                • Michele
                  Senior Member
                  • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                  • 13964

                  #9
                  Considering it was the NYT Editorial Board who wrote the biased opinion, their "apology"...forced by the backlash of them perpetuating a lie...means little.

                  I doubt Palin will win her lawsuit according to experts I've listened to. But don't pretend the NYT didn't know exactly what they were doing when they ran their claptrap.
                  May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
                  Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
                  And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
                  may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

                  Comment

                  • Norm dePlume
                    Err foil
                    • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                    • 14904

                    #10
                    "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"
                    Enjoy.

                    Comment

                    • Michele
                      Senior Member
                      • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                      • 13964

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                      "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!"
                      The NYT already faux apologized. Maybe you can ring them and try to convince them to take it back.
                      May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
                      Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
                      And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
                      may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

                      Comment

                      • Norm dePlume
                        Err foil
                        • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                        • 14904

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Michele View Post
                        The NYT already faux apologized. Maybe you can ring them and try to convince them to take it back.
                        I shoulda said "Don't retweet" since that's your media outrage for today.
                        Enjoy.

                        Comment

                        • Michele
                          Senior Member
                          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                          • 13964

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                          I shoulda said "Don't retweet" since that's your media outrage for today.
                          You so clever!
                          May we raise children who love the unloved things - the dandelion, the worm, the spiderlings.
                          Children who sense the rose needs the thorn and run into rainswept days the same way they turn towards the sun...
                          And when they're grown and someone has to speak for those who have no voice,
                          may they draw upon that wilder bond, those days of tending tender things and be the one.

                          Comment

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