Newman - 5 day Covid isolation officially history - CDC

[Frostbit]

LINK

[phillygirl]

I saw that earlier. Funny. I had a conversation with a friend a few weeks ago. I had a cold. She assumed I had tested for Covid. I hadn’t. She then assumed I was isolating from my sister. I couldn’t. I was responsible for her for that 4 day period so there was nothing I could do about not being in close contact wit( her. Then she asked didn’t I want to know if I had it. Nope. I already had it once. I had no aches, no fever, no sore thought. I was not unusually tired. I had a cold. Besides, as a friend who is “in science” told me, Covid is just a named virus at this point. We catch lots of unnamed viruses all the time and don’t freak out about it. I wasn’t freaking out about this latest cold. And my mother was right. A cold is 3 days coming, three days here, and three days going. You’ll be sick for 7 -10 days. Deal with it.

[Newman]

LINK

Thanks for posting. I noticed the headline during a break in a gig last night. Interestingly not everyone is ready to embrace the change, feeling that "big money" has moved the priorities from safety to efficiency—too many workers were taking too many weeks off. It's like the widespread move to end remote working. (For example, Philadelphia Mayor Says You All Need to Get Back to the Office (phillymag.com))

... Last week, [Mayor Cherelle] Parker told many city officials in Philadelphia to get off their couches and back to the office full-time. She fully expects the 25,000 or so other city employees to eventually do the same. And now, Parker has expanded her call, telling all Philly businesses to get their workers back to the office.

Thanks to COVID, pedestrian traffic in Center City went way, way down, as any Center City store, café, restaurant or bar will attest. But things have improved. Pedestrian activity is now up to about 85 percent of what it was before COVID knocked us out. Parker is hoping her back-to-the-office agenda will bring that stat up to 100 percent or even higher.

I suspect working at home is about as efficient as remote learning proved to be. My brother, retired this year but who ran a company, moved as early as he could to require office attendance. He said you needed the daily interaction to maintain the office "culture," his word, meaning team spirit, I think.

Anyway, I think the CDC revision is overdue. From your link:

The basic advice is now the same [as for other upper-respiratory illnesses]: Stay home when you’re sick and away from others. Under the new approach, people who test positive for the coronavirus would no longer need to isolate at home if they have been fever-free for at least 24 hours without the aid of medication and their overall symptoms are improving.

Once people resume normal activities, the updated guidance encourages them to take additional preventive steps for the next five days to curb disease spread. This includes improving ventilation by opening windows to bring in fresh outside air or purifying indoor air, washing hands often and cleaning frequently touched surfaces, wearing a well-fitting mask and keeping a distance from others, CDC officials said.

Giving people symptom-based guidance is a better way to prioritize those most at risk and balance the potential for disruptive impacts on schools and workplaces, health officials and experts have said.

I vaguely recall Johnny Paycheck singing a song about how you can take this mask and shove it, I ain't wearing it no more, but my memory could be playing tricks with me.

Some advocates protest,

Advocates for people with disabilities and others who face higher risk of severe COVID condemned the CDC’s shift, which they sayendangers them by abandoning attempts to control transmission.

bless their hearts.

[Newman]

I saw that earlier. Funny. I had a conversation with a friend a few weeks ago. I had a cold. She assumed I had tested for Covid. I hadn’t. She then assumed I was isolating from my sister. I couldn’t. I was responsible for her for that 4 day period so there was nothing I could do about not being in close contact wit( her. Then she asked didn’t I want to know if I had it. Nope. I already had it once. I had no aches, no fever, no sore thought. I was not unusually tired. I had a cold. Besides, as a friend who is “in science” told me, Covid is just a named virus at this point. We catch lots of unnamed viruses all the time and don’t freak out about it. I wasn’t freaking out about this latest cold. And my mother was right. A cold is 3 days coming, three days here, and three days going. You’ll be sick for 7 -10 days. Deal with it.

It's hard to unring that bell.

[phillygirl]

It's hard to unring that bell.

Yep. Don't get me wrong. When I finally succumbed to Covid in October, 2022, it was the best 6 days I'd had in about 6 years. I got to go to my Maryland house. No tough work responsibilities. Yes, I "worked from home" but it was light duty. No seeing clients in person. No court. No annoying non-stop phone calls. No HR managing of the firm. No sister responsibilities. And it was an unseasonably warm Halloween week. Windows and doors open, enjoying the fresh air. I had 24 hours of feeling really yucky and then it was just a cold. But I took full advantage of the mandate to not come in contact with anyone and that suited me just fine. I've spent my life never resting when I was sick and always going full tilt, regardless of how I personally felt. It was nice to not do that.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

Thanks for posting. I noticed the headline during a break in a gig last night. Interestingly not everyone is ready to embrace the change, feeling that "big money" has moved the priorities from safety to efficiency—too many workers were taking too many weeks off. It's like the widespread move to end remote working. (For example, Philadelphia Mayor Says You All Need to Get Back to the Office (phillymag.com))

I suspect working at home is about as efficient as remote learning proved to be. My brother, retired this year but who ran a company, moved as early as he could to require office attendance. He said you needed the daily interaction to maintain the office "culture," his word, meaning team spirit, I think.

Anyway, I think the CDC revision is overdue. From your link:

I vaguely recall Johnny Paycheck singing a song about how you can take this mask and shove it, I ain't wearing it no more, but my memory could be playing tricks with me.

Some advocates protest, bless their hearts.

There are at least 2 separate and distinct issues here:

1. Reasonable health precautions; and

2. Return to office versus work from home.

Reasonable health precautions should be about the same as for anything else. Stay home until you've been fever-free without medication for at least 24 hours, and don't spread it; cover your cough EFFECTIVELY and wash your hands.

RTO versus WFH is different, but not intrinsically significantly more problematic. Dry cleaners need to work onsite. Waiters need to work onsite. Engineers and lawyers often do not. Doctors mostly do, depending on specialty; tech support staff don't.

My employer is a HUGE quasi-governmental agency. We are state employees, but our agency functions as an insurance company and is entirely self-funded. IOW, the state cuts our paychecks, but they do not come from state funds. We have to make a profit and compete on a level playing field with other insurance companies, despite the fact that we must insure businesses that cannot obtain insurance elsewhere. Kind of like Citizens' (homeowner's carrier of the last resort in Florida, for the non-Floridians here). The difference between my agency and Citizens' being that, unlike the rest of California, we operate well in the black, and in offices that meet or exceed production goals, we get bonuses for high-quality, high--quantity work.

We have strong objective measures of productivity. There was already a limited part-time remote ("hybrid") work option in place when California shut down, just because it helped attract the best talent for both some of our outlying offices and those in areas where the commutes are onerous. There was a very slight dip in productivity at the beginning of the shutdown, but since about 3 months in, we are at or above pre-COVID productivity levels on every measure, including profit. Ultimately, we expect to save a LOT on real estate and rent, as offices with low in-person counts downsize their physical space. We already have "hoteling" in existing offices, fully functional work stations that people can use at the office closest to their home, on a temporary or occasional basis.

There are, of course, functions that cannot be performed remotely. Cal-OSHA inspectors have to visit work sites in person, but they spent a lot of time in the field anyway, and their reports can be filed from home as easily as from an office. We attorneys have to attend trials in person, but it's amazing how much more quickly settlement conferences go when you don't have to search all over the building for your opposing counsel. Depositions via Zoom cut way down on travel time and expenses.

This was a transition that needed to happen anyway. If there's one bright spot in the general COVID mess, it's that the future was forced to happen in terms of remote work.

As for "team spirit" an "office culture," I have no problem connecting with my colleagues via email, MS Teams, and telephone. I don't think anyone else does, either, What has been largely eliminated is the time-wasting chit-chat. For those who need to feel more connected, our company has instituted online "water--cooler chats" and other "cultural" events that happen primarily during the lunch hour. Personally, I avoid such frou-frou, but it's there for those who want it.

[Newman]

There are at least 2 separate and distinct issues here:

1. Reasonable health precautions; and

2. Return to office versus work from home.

Reasonable health precautions should be about the same as for anything else. Stay home until you've been fever-free without medication for at least 24 hours, and don't spread it; cover your cough EFFECTIVELY and wash your hands.

RTO versus WFH is different, but not intrinsically significantly more problematic. Dry cleaners need to work onsite. Waiters need to work onsite. Engineers and lawyers often do not. Doctors mostly do, depending on specialty; tech support staff don't.

My employer is a HUGE quasi-governmental agency. We are state employees, but our agency functions as an insurance company and is entirely self-funded. IOW, the state cuts our paychecks, but they do not come from state funds. We have to make a profit and compete on a level playing field with other insurance companies, despite the fact that we must insure businesses that cannot obtain insurance elsewhere. Kind of like Citizens' (homeowner's carrier of the last resort in Florida, for the non-Floridians here). The difference between my agency and Citizens' being that, unlike the rest of California, we operate well in the black, and in offices that meet or exceed production goals, we get bonuses for high-quality, high--quantity work.

We have strong objective measures of productivity. There was already a limited part-time remote ("hybrid") work option in place when California shut down, just because it helped attract the best talent for both some of our outlying offices and those in areas where the commutes are onerous. There was a very slight dip in productivity at the beginning of the shutdown, but since about 3 months in, we are at or above pre-COVID productivity levels on every measure, including profit. Ultimately, we expect to save a LOT on real estate and rent, as offices with low in-person counts downsize their physical space. We already have "hoteling" in existing offices, fully functional work stations that people can use at the office closest to their home, on a temporary or occasional basis.

There are, of course, functions that cannot be performed remotely. Cal-OSHA inspectors have to visit work sites in person, but they spent a lot of time in the field anyway, and their reports can be filed from home as easily as from an office. We attorneys have to attend trials in person, but it's amazing how much more quickly settlement conferences go when you don't have to search all over the building for your opposing counsel. Depositions via Zoom cut way down on travel time and expenses.

This was a transition that needed to happen anyway. If there's one bright spot in the general COVID mess, it's that the future was forced to happen in terms of remote work.

As for "team spirit" an "office culture," I have no problem connecting with my colleagues via email, MS Teams, and telephone. I don't think anyone else does, either, What has been largely eliminated is the time-wasting chit-chat. For those who need to feel more connected, our company has instituted online "water--cooler chats" and other "cultural" events that happen primarily during the lunch hour. Personally, I avoid such frou-frou, but it's there for those who want it.

If I try to argue my brother's position I'd be making it up, but I can note that his is an engineering firm (structural and forensic). From my infrequent visits, people aren't frittering time away (there's no lounge), but they are within talking distance of each other. I can also note that he was big into hiring engineering students as apprentices, and a fair number went on to work in the firm. I imagine being in the physical company of other working engineers (in a successful firm) is an invaluable part of their experience.

Another friend of mine is a back office medical worker whose job is in Texas. She worked well remotely. And now she's moved to Colorado, keeping the same job.

[phillygirl]

If I try to argue my brother's position I'd be making it up, but I can note that his is an engineering firm (structural and forensic). From my infrequent visits, people aren't frittering time away (there's no lounge), but they are within talking distance of each other. I can also note that he was big into hiring engineering students as apprentices, and a fair number went on to work in the firm. I imagine being in the physical company of other working engineers (in a successful firm) is an invaluable part of their experience.

Another friend of mine is a back office medical worker whose job is in Texas. She worked well remotely. And now she's moved to Colorado, keeping the same job.

Yes. Some jobs lend themselves to remote work. Others do not.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

Yes. Some jobs lend themselves to remote work. Others do not.

True. The issue seems to be that some employers are arbitrarily bringing everyone back to the office, when the entire enterprise could benefit from a more selective approach (not to mention the commute savings to employees and the benefits of keeping unnecessary cars off the road).

[Newman]

True. The issue seems to be that some employers are arbitrarily bringing everyone back to the office, when the entire enterprise could benefit from a more selective approach (not to mention the commute savings to employees and the benefits of keeping unnecessary cars off the road).

The Philly Mayor isn't coy: she wants more foot traffic downtown to support ancillary businesses. A lot of the "commute savings" supported local businesses. Mayor Adams of NYC has pleaded likewise for years now. (I think the current imposition of "congestion pricing" is keenly ironic.)

NYC was especially draconian in its covid crackdowns; I recall pictures of diners forced to eat al fresco in bitter weather, and enduring absurd advice about masking up between bites and so on. The crackdowns were among several reasons why much of NYC emptied out and became prey to crime and vagrancy.

As is true in all tyrannies, of course, extreme measures create extreme supporters, driven to justify their dislocations, and passionate about imposing the same on others. The enduring controversies about face masks emerged from this, I believe.

King Canute will have better luck stemming the ocean tides than he will convincing people their passions are misdirected.

Remote working is different. Workers were "forced" to discover the advantages of "commute savings." There's been discussion for many years even in forums such as this one about technology obviating the need for metropolitan concentrations of workers. I think the covid panic accelerated those developments, joining a deterioration of the quality of urban life with the discovery of advantages of post-urban living.

[scott]

I suspect working at home is about as efficient as remote learning proved to be.

That's where you'd be wrong. A plurality of office jobs are more efficient without all the watercooler talk and side tasks when someone walks up and asks, "got a minute?" Lots of groups are virtual by function, since cross-functional and cross-vendor collaboration is now normalized through video calls instead of flying people to sit in a conference room - a dynamic made harder by the shitty operations of airlines these days.

But executives who go to high society parties are getting political pressure to prop up inefficient and expensive downtown business interests so they are trying to get people to come back. People are even taking pay cuts to stay remote and if their employers keep up the pressure they are leaving.