RIF, SES and the Shutdown

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  • Newman
    Behind the Iron Curtain
    • Friday, November 1, 2013
    • 25814

    #1

    RIF, SES and the Shutdown

    An interesting idea here, if the shutdown continues into next week:

    Trump Puts Schumer and Pelosi in a Brilliant Vise Grip
    The federal government shutdown has presented a unique opportunity for President Donald Trump to clear out the deadwood in the federal bureaucracy, saving U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars in salaries, perks, and rented office space for people who aren't doing anything productive.
    The writer, Jim Davis, refers to these two, among other internal links, to note that a "Reduction in Force" (RIF) is enabled after 30 days (today marks the 28th day) of a shutdown, and that otherwise protected Senior Executive Service (SES) jobs can be terminated:

    I’m A Senior Trump Official, And I Hope A Long Shutdown Smokes Out The Resistance

    Reduction in Force

    Davis writes, "At 30 days, even SES executives loyal to the Democratic Party become vulnerable to the RIF monster."
    On Day 30 of the shutdown, a clause is triggered in these federal employment contracts that enables RIF. The Office of Personnel Management oversees the RIF process.

    A downsizing plan must be presented to OMB on Day 31. Trump's team needs to act fast. The plan must include all of the people who just sit around texting each other about their next leak to MSNBC, or planning their next protest march in a pink hat. It will take another 30 days to implement the plan. Roughly 800,000 federal employees could be permanently removed under this plan, with an annual savings of roughly $80 billion in salaries alone. Including the pensions; the government vehicles; and the rented office space, furniture, and equipment, it could be $150 billion.

    In particular, removing the SES employees and their hefty salaries represents a huge savings.
    I'm familiar with this technique from personal experience. The school district in which I spent most of my career used the RIF idea to lose some tenured teachers. One I remember was a math teacher who was a thorn in the side to many. They invited him to become the math chair for the district, then two years later eliminated the position. As I recall the rule was they had to keep that position eliminated for three years, or rehire the fired guy if they re-opened the slot.

    (Following that experience in the early 1990s, for many years no teachers would accept such "promotions" unless they were guaranteed their old jobs if the new one was eliminated. Surprise, surprise! as Gomer Pyle would say.)

    In a completely unrelated conversation I had yesterday with a recently retired federal employee, the substance of this description was confirmed:
    In the D.C. article, our unnamed administration official explains that roughly 80% of the federal work force in many departments, including his own, simply don't do anything. They plan shopping trips and vacations....
    I'd consider a RIF a miracle. The good thing, for short-attention span people like me, is that to take effect a RIF plan has to be ready by day 31 of the shutdown, which is Tuesday the 22nd.

    We'll see. A lot of Davis's essay is a partisan diatribe, which isn't my interest here. But he finishes with this, and I agree:
    We didn't hire Trump to go to church with us. We hired him to clean house. This is the best chance to get it done.
    Last edited by Newman; Saturday, January 19, 2019, 8:48 AM.
    • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
    • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
    • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
    • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
    • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
    • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
    • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
  • Billy Jingo
    I shave with Occam's Razor
    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
    • 18663

    #2
    The largest landslide in U.S. presidential history (Reagan vs.Dukakis Mondale, 1980) was 17 million.


    American Thinker, continuing its mission to be the most ironically named publication in the country.
    “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

    ~ Omar El Akkad
    ​

    Comment

    • Norm dePlume
      Err foil
      • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
      • 14904

      #3
      From the website of the FBI:

      Q. The OPM website says that after 30 days in a furlough status, I will be part of Reduction in Force (RIF). Is that true?
      A. No. That does not apply to employees during a furlough due to a lapse in appropriations.
      Enjoy.

      Comment

      • Norm dePlume
        Err foil
        • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
        • 14904

        #4
        Federal News Network asked OMB about this RIF story.

        Furloughed feds won’t be RIFed if government shutdown extends past 30 days, OMB says

        Agencies won’t need to consider targeted layoffs, otherwise known as reductions-in-force (RIFs), if the current partial government shutdown continues for another few days.

        While federal statute typically instructs agencies to RIF targeted groups of employees who have been placed on furlough status for 30 days or more, the regulations don’t apply to emergency furlough situations, the Office of Management and Budget confirmed Tuesday.

        Some astute Federal News Network readers had questioned whether their agencies could RIF furloughed employees if the current government shutdown, now at 25 days and counting, hits the 30-day mark.

        There are two kinds of furloughs. “Administrative furloughs” are planned events by an agency “designed to absorb reductions necessitated by downsizing, reduced funding, lack of work or any budget situation other than a lapse in appropriations,” according to the Office of Personnel Management.“Shutdown furloughs,” also called “emergency furloughs,” occur during lapses in appropriations.

        OPM’s 2015 guidance on shutdown furloughs also clarifies the matter.

        “Reductions in force furlough regulations and SES competitive furlough requirements are not applicable to emergency shutdown furloughs because the ultimate duration of an emergency shutdown furlough is unknown at the outset and is dependent entirely on congressional action, rather than agency action,” OPM guidance reads. “The RIF furlough regulations and SES competitive furlough requirements, on the other hand, contemplate planned, foreseeable, money-saving furloughs that, at the outset, are planned to exceed 30 days.”
        Enjoy.

        Comment

        • Norm dePlume
          Err foil
          • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
          • 14904

          #5
          Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
          The largest landslide in U.S. presidential history (Reagan vs. Dukakis Mondale, 1980) was 17 million.


          American Thinker, continuing its mission to be the most ironically named publication in the country.
          That is so weird. It's like they've made a correction to it once already and it's still wrong.
          Enjoy.

          Comment

          • Newman
            Behind the Iron Curtain
            • Friday, November 1, 2013
            • 25814

            #6
            Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
            Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
            Federal News Network asked OMB about this RIF story.
            Thanks for the links.

            Here we go a weed-whacking again, I guess. I won't pretend to get to the bottom of this,
            The RIF regulations are derived from section 12 of the Veterans' Preference Act of 1944 and other statutes. These laws are codified in sections 3501 through 3503 of title 5, United States Code (5 U.S.C. 3501-3503). OPM implements these statutory requirements through regulations published in part 351 of title 5, Code of Federal Regulations (5 C.F.R. part 351).
            but the short answer is, it's complicated.

            For example, this is "unresponsive":
            Q. The OPM website says that after 30 days in a furlough status, I will be part of Reduction in Force (RIF). Is that true?
            A. No. That does not apply to employees during a furlough due to a lapse in appropriations.
            An "RIF Action" is not a single thing, and as the OPM sets it out, actual dismissal is the last option of many, and further,
            An agency may not use the RIF regulations to separate or demote an employee for a personal reason, such as problems with the employee's performance or conduct.
            More's the pity.

            But that caveat was also present in the district of my own experience, and it was plain as day that the regs were used to run around that blandishment to get rid of one ornery guy.

            Here's the "Summary" page table of contents:
            on this page

            Learning About the RIF Regulations
            Legal Basis for the RIF Regulations
            The Agency's Right to Make RIF Decisions
            Actions Covered by the RIF Regulations
            The Agency's Right to Reassign Employees
            Defining the Competitive Area
            Defining the Local Commuting Area
            Establishing Competitive Levels
            Establishing Retention Registers
            Determining Retention Standing-Tenure
            Determining Retention Standing-Veterans' Preference
            Determining Retention Standing-Veterans' Preference for Retired Members of the Armed Forces
            Determining Retention Standing-Total Creditable Service
            Determining Retention Standing-Performance
            Two Rounds of RIF Competition
            Sample Retention Register
            Release From the Competitive Level
            Sample Release From the Competitive Level
            Possible Right to Bump or Retreat to an Available Position
            Bumping Rights
            Sample Bump Right to a Different Competitive Level
            Retreating Rights
            Sample Retreat Right to a Different Competitive Level
            Grade Intervals in Assignment Rights
            Offers of Assignment to Vacant Positions
            RIF Notices
            RIF Appeals and Grievances
            Additional Information from the Agency
            I'm going to leave that to the weed-eaters with J.D.s.

            It isn't simple, and it isn't a good tool for axing the pests. (In fairness, the sources I've used haven't said it was.) However, a RIF action to restructure and reduce the size of the bureaucracies is VERY DOABLE.

            I'm completely wrong that it has to be codified by day 31. But it is something to watch for, and I doubt furloughed civil service workers are taking it lightly.
            • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
            • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
            • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
            • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
            • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
            • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
            • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
            • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
            • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

            Comment

            • Norm dePlume
              Err foil
              • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
              • 14904

              #7
              You really do dislike clarity and truth. I suppose that's because they don't serve your purpose.

              Only you would characterize a clear exchange like "Is that true? No." as "unresponsive." In your mind, any response that doesn't muddy the water is no response at all.
              Last edited by Norm dePlume; Monday, January 21, 2019, 11:32 AM.
              Enjoy.

              Comment

              • Lady Marva
                Senior Member
                • Wednesday, June 17, 2015
                • 13321

                #8
                Originally posted by Newman View Post
                But it is something to watch for, and I doubt furloughed civil service workers are taking it lightly.
                ONe wonders. After all, they don't lose their jobs for any reason.

                Comment

                • Adam
                  The way to a woman's heart is through her taste buds.
                  • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                  • 16885

                  #9
                  It's not something that I would support, and furthermore I think that it would be a pretty crappy thing to do, but if the RIF doesn't work directly, I suppose that there could be a sort of a "back-door RIF" through outright attrition. These people just can no longer go without a paycheck and eventually just seek other employment and their previously-held positions aren't filled again after the government is re-opened.

                  Again, I think that would be a crappy thing to do to someone (a lot of someones) as a specific tactic, and many have noted that there are all sorts of ways for these people to keep their heads above water unless they were seriously close to the edge already: free loans from credit unions and some banks, unemployment, etc., plus the fact that that good federal benefit package remains in place even if they aren't drawing a paycheck. But I can appreciate just not wanting to spend all of one's savings sitting around on pins and needles waiting to go back to your job.
                  It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                  In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                  Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                  Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                  Comment

                  • Celeste Chalfonte
                    apostate
                    • Saturday, October 5, 2013
                    • 27897

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Adam View Post
                    It's not something that I would support, and furthermore I think that it would be a pretty crappy thing to do, but if the RIF doesn't work directly, I suppose that there could be a sort of a "back-door RIF" through outright attrition. These people just can no longer go without a paycheck and eventually just seek other employment and their previously-held positions aren't filled again after the government is re-opened.

                    Again, I think that would be a crappy thing to do to someone (a lot of someones) as a specific tactic, and many have noted that there are all sorts of ways for these people to keep their heads above water unless they were seriously close to the edge already: free loans from credit unions and some banks, unemployment, etc., plus the fact that that good federal benefit package remains in place even if they aren't drawing a paycheck. But I can appreciate just not wanting to spend all of one's savings sitting around on pins and needles waiting to go back to your job.
                    Apparently, if you're just not getting paid, you don't qualify for UIB. And if you're "essential," you can't get another job, even short-term, because you have to work or they can fire you. TSA employees in Hawaii are reportedly giving up and quitting their jobs. I expect the same will happen in other high cost of living places as it drags on.
                    "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

                    Comment

                    • Newman
                      Behind the Iron Curtain
                      • Friday, November 1, 2013
                      • 25814

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
                      Apparently, if you're just not getting paid, you don't qualify for UIB. And if you're "essential," you can't get another job, even short-term, because you have to work or they can fire you. TSA employees in Hawaii are reportedly giving up and quitting their jobs. I expect the same will happen in other high cost of living places as it drags on.
                      Five years ago, at least, I knew from a friend who was one, that TSA employees were very low paid (in the NY-NJ area), and that rather appalling work habits were common in the areas out of public view. If my friend's account is still valid, these workers are unlikely to have resources to endure a lengthy delay in pay, or motivation to do so.
                      • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
                      • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
                      • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
                      • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
                      • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
                      • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
                      • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
                      • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
                      • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

                      Comment

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