Quo Vadis, Democrati?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Newman
    Behind the Iron Curtain
    • Friday, November 1, 2013
    • 25814

    #1

    Quo Vadis, Democrati?

    Victor Davis Hanson, VDH, obviously penned the headline himself. Reading VDH is never a waste of time.

    An excerpt:
    . . . [T]elevision allowed the country to conclude that seeing and hearing Schiff all day long was a different experience from catching minute- or two-minute glimpses of him. The TV version was entirely toxic.

    In person, some of the House civil-servant witnesses were haughty. They were certainly obsessed with their positions, titles, and résumés, and eager to talk down to others while talking themselves up. But mostly they sounded incoherent in decrying a brief hold on military assistance to Ukraine by a president who in fact has armed Ukrainians in a way his predecessor never dared. Most of the public came away with several general takeaways — all harmful to the Democrats.

    One, the more viewers learned of the corrupt, wily Ukrainians (who were constantly shifting alliances to bet on the anticipated 2016 front-runner), the more they thought that Trump might have been circumspect to have held up, if only for a few weeks, U.S. military assistance in the first place, at least until he learned the nature of the new Ukrainian president. The more one learned about the baffling array of freelancing and often duplicitous Ukrainian ambassadors, prosecutors, foreign ministers, presidents, and gas directors, the more one concluded it might be better to let them get their house in order first.

    Two, why blast a president who armed the Ukrainians while staying silent about a prior president who refused military aid and even used non-military aid as a lever to adjudicate Ukraine prosecutions?

    Three, the House Republican interrogators, previously mostly unknown, turned out to be far more effective cross-examiners than their Democratic counterparts, in part because the latter were trying to remove a president on the basis of hearsay.

    While Democrats talked of Fiona Hill’s pigtails as an eleven-year-old and raincoat metaphors, Republicans Conaway, Jordan, Nunes, Ratcliffe, Stefanik, Stewart, Turner, and Wenstrup drew out contradictions, hearsay, fuzzy memories, and mostly anemic “I suppose,” “I heard,” “I assumed,” and “I presumed,” rather than documents, tapes, and proofs from the witnesses.

    Schiff had no White House tape of Trump channeling Richard Nixon’s obscenity-ridden machinations, a Ken Starr or a Leon Jaworski report, or Monica’s stained dress.

    By Thursday night, a pale Schiff was reduced to mock outrage and lecturing a purportedly dense nation — on the admissibility of hearsay. When the last remarks of the chairman were to rail into the microphone, one knew he had lost control of his star chamber.

    So, after that boondoggle, where do the Democrats go now? Remember, Adam Schiff hijacked the impeachment inquiry from its proper place in Gerald Nadler’s House Judiciary Committee. Speaker Pelosi’s apparent gamble was that the off-putting Schiff would be nonetheless more telegenic and charismatic than the buffoonish Nadler. The latter had disastrously introduced in person and at length an embarrassingly addled Robert Mueller. If Nadler now copies Schiff’s methods, the pro-impeachment polls will collapse altogether. Nadler is as duplicitous as Schiff but lacks the Californian’s cunning. We should expect Nadler to get the inquiry over as fast as possible on the theory that he will have higher negatives even than Schiff.
    VDH argues that Trump has been "immunized" by the worthless and endless accusations thrown against him.
    A sane House Speaker would impose “Censure!” on her confused ranks. But the idea of a spike-the-ball Trump shouting “Exoneration!” as he goes on the stump about Joe and Hunter Biden would be too much for 2020 progressives to stomach. So we will probably see the Holiday Impeachment script play out for the next few weeks (or months), thereby, in all likelihood, ensuring the reelection of Donald Trump. Only an Elizabeth Warren candidacy could conceivably be a greater gift to Trump than a Schiff-and-Nadler-engineered impeachment.

    In the present unhinged climate, Trump could get both.
    • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
    • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
    • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
    • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
    • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
    • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
    • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
    • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
    • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.
  • Gingersnap
    Resident stylistic consultant
    • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
    • 24058

    #2
    There's certainly something to this idea of Trump being "immunized" by all this idiocy. While true believers in either camp won't be moved by any of it, I think independents (who actually decide national elections) are thinking this really is laughable.

    Joe and Jane Average out there in Normal Land aren't following all this with baited breath and don't seem to care much about it. There's no crime or sex element here. As with all the other "charges" against Trump, there's just no "there" there.

    Democrats need to be worried about this instead of placating their more rabid base members.
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."

    Comment

    • Celeste Chalfonte
      apostate
      • Saturday, October 5, 2013
      • 27897

      #3
      Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post
      There's certainly something to this idea of Trump being "immunized" by all this idiocy. While true believers in either camp won't be moved by any of it, I think independents (who actually decide national elections) are thinking this really is laughable.

      Joe and Jane Average out there in Normal Land aren't following all this with baited breath and don't seem to care much about it. There's no crime or sex element here. As with all the other "charges" against Trump, there's just no "there" there.

      Democrats need to be worried about this instead of placating their more rabid base members.
      Bated.
      "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

      Comment

      • Lady Marva
        Senior Member
        • Wednesday, June 17, 2015
        • 13321

        #4
        Originally posted by Gingersnap View Post

        Joe and Jane Average out there in Normal Land aren't following all this with baited breath and don't seem to care much about it. There's no crime or sex element here. As with all the other "charges" against Trump, there's just no "there" there.
        Correct. Heck of a lot more worry about money for Christmas presents.
        Those people are far removed, unknown, and media posturers.

        Comment

        • Billy Jingo
          I shave with Occam's Razor
          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
          • 18663

          #5
          The similarities between Maoists and Trumpists is striking; the Iranian revolutionaries of 1979 are also in that same mold.
          “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

          ~ Omar El Akkad
          ​

          Comment

          • scott
            Go-to Guru
            • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
            • 15799

            #6
            Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
            The similarities between Maoists and Trumpists is striking; the Iranian revolutionaries of 1979 are also in that same mold.
            I don't see that at all. Care to enlighten us with your vast knowledge of these three seemingly disparate groups?
            "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
            -John Locke

            "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
            -Newman

            "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
            -Newman

            Comment

            • Billy Jingo
              I shave with Occam's Razor
              • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
              • 18663

              #7
              Originally posted by scott View Post
              I don't see that at all. Care to enlighten us with your vast knowledge of these three seemingly disparate groups?
              Read a book.
              “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

              ~ Omar El Akkad
              ​

              Comment

              • Newman
                Behind the Iron Curtain
                • Friday, November 1, 2013
                • 25814

                #8
                Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                Read a book.
                I recommend The Case for Trump, by Victor Davis Hanson.
                • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
                • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
                • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
                • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
                • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
                • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
                • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
                • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
                • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

                Comment

                • Billy Jingo
                  I shave with Occam's Razor
                  • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                  • 18663

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Newman View Post
                  I recommend The Case for Trump, by Victor Davis Hanson.
                  I recommend Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi.
                  “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                  ~ Omar El Akkad
                  ​

                  Comment

                  • Frostbit
                    But only once
                    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                    • 22330

                    #10
                    Originally posted by scott View Post
                    I don't see that at all. Care to enlighten us with your vast knowledge of these three seemingly disparate groups?
                    Apparently not
                    If it pays, it stays

                    Comment

                    • Billy Jingo
                      I shave with Occam's Razor
                      • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                      • 18663

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
                      Apparently not
                      What? You thought that was a serious question?

                      I suppose you would.
                      “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                      ~ Omar El Akkad
                      ​

                      Comment

                      • scott
                        Go-to Guru
                        • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                        • 15799

                        #12
                        Originally posted by scott View Post
                        I don't see that at all. Care to enlighten us with your vast knowledge of these three seemingly disparate groups?
                        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                        Read a book.
                        Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
                        Apparently not
                        Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                        What? You thought that was a serious question?

                        I suppose you would.
                        It was a serious question. But like most of your wild accusations, you cannot back it up so you dismiss the question with some claim to superiority.

                        Einstein said it best:

                        "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                        -John Locke

                        "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                        -Newman

                        "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
                        -Newman

                        Comment

                        • Billy Jingo
                          I shave with Occam's Razor
                          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                          • 18663

                          #13
                          Originally posted by scott View Post
                          It was a serious question.
                          No it wasn’t. It was tainted with ridicule and sarcasm. It was not an invitation to dialogue; you being open to a different way of viewing the world in an honest exchange undertaken in good faith.
                          “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                          ~ Omar El Akkad
                          ​

                          Comment

                          • Newman
                            Behind the Iron Curtain
                            • Friday, November 1, 2013
                            • 25814

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                            What? You thought that was a serious question?

                            I suppose you would.
                            I was fascinated by this piece in The Hill,

                            How to shut down your Trump-supporting family member at Thanksgiving dinner

                            The author Marik von Rennenkampff is described in the colophon as "an analyst with the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation, as well as an Obama administration appointee at the U.S. Department of Defense."

                            Rennenkampff also wrote, for The Hill, Christians cannot serve both God and the GOP two months ago. His views don't elevate my impression of either the State Dept. or Obama administration appointees to the Defense Dept.

                            HOWEVER, reading the Thanksgiving piece is a clear view of the differently world Hate Trumpers live in. Rennenkampff, by the way, is the name of a prominent Russian general in the early 20th century, who was executed by the Communist apostles of Lenin.



                            . . . In a country bitterly divided over the Trump presidency and his looming impeachment, heated arguments will begin. Tempers and passions are likely to flare. But they shouldn’t.

                            Political discussions should not be about left or right, Democrat vs. Republican. Instead, they should be about what is objectively right or wrong for the country.
                            More from Marik:
                            . . . the facts are simply not on Trump’s side. A few discussion points — from the perspective of a political independent — on key topics follow:

                            The Economy: President Donald Trump made the economy a centerpiece of his 2016 campaign. Three years into his presidency, Trump relentlessly touts job growth under his administration. But it is important to note that 1.1 million fewer jobs were created during Trump’s first 33 months in office compared to Obama’s last 33. Trump also promised to bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States. But manufacturing is now the smallest share of the American economy in 72 years. Meanwhile, median household income, an important economic measure, has remained largely stagnant over Trump’s first three years in office. Trump administration spin aside, increases in household income trail those under Obama, which grew steadily toward the end of his administration.

                            Moreover, in selling a massive tax cut to the public, Trump promised “4, 5, even 6 percent” annual economic growth. With dismal growth expected this quarter, Trump will finish his first term with a high-water mark of 2.9 percent annual economic growth (in 2018) — matching Obama’s economic record. Apparently, Trump’s much-touted rollbacks of regulations protecting American workers and the environment had very little effect on economic growth. Moreover, the massive Trump tax cut, which overwhelmingly benefitted the wealthy and corporate interests, did not “pay for itself,” as Trump predicted it would. Perhaps worst of all, despite his repeated promises and assurances, Trump’s tax cut had almost no effect on the economy.

                            This stunning lack of growth begs the question: Why are we racking up trillions in debt (much of it bought up by China) thanks to the Trump tax cut? The only discernible effect of the Trump tax cut appears to be an explosion in wealth and income inequality. Indeed, inequality in America is now at levels not seen since Wall Street greed caused the economic crash of 1929 and the Great Depression. For his part, Trump told his ultra-wealthy friends that “You all just got a lot richer” immediately after his tax cut was passed.

                            But a system where three citizens own more wealth than the poorest half of the country cannot be sustainable. Indeed, with inequality fueling large-scale, brutally violent protests around the world, Americans would be wise to take heed of the pitfalls of extreme wealth concentrated in the hands of a few. And, if contemporary warnings do not suffice, the French, Russian and Cuban revolutions, among many others, serve as stark reminders of what may be to come if wealth is further concentrated in the United States.

                            Moreover, as a direct result of the massive Trump tax cut for the wealthy, 2018 was the first year ever that tax revenues actually declined in a relatively strong economy. This paved the way for the Trump administration to post the largest monthly deficit in U.S. history, further driving up the federal debt. While many commentators blame Obama for skyrocketing debt during his administration, they conveniently ignore that those increases — according to the U.S. Treasury — were overwhelmingly due to the long-term compounding effects of the massive George W. Bush tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy.

                            The (relatively small) debts accrued due to the Obama administration’s aggressive economic recovery policies helped bring unemployment down from a high of 10 percent to 4.7 percent, an impressive decline of more than 5 percentage points. It should come as no surprise that economists overwhelmingly credit Obama’s policies with bringing the U.S. economy back to life after the Great Recession — an economy which Trump now loudly claims credit for.

                            Lastly, stock market gains are by no means an indicator of economic well-being on Main Street. After all, Wal-Mart’s stock could skyrocket, only to leave millions of Americans stuck in painfully low-paying jobs. But despite relentlessly touting Wall Street gains, Trump significantly trails both Obama and Clinton in stock market performance at this point in their respective presidencies.
                            With similar confidence in his own objectivity, Marik covers Health Care, Immigration, Foreign Policy, Impeachment and "Identity" Politics. About the last he writes:
                            “Identity” Politics: Trump has railed against political correctness. But Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg, Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) and Andrew Yang have all spoken out against the corrosive effects of “identity” politics and political correctness run amok. Perhaps most importantly, President Obama’s forceful rejections of “woke” culture and ideological purity should be a wakeup call for the left. Continuing to push such divisive narratives will further alienate the crucial voters in Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin who decide American presidential elections.
                            Do you see any identity politics? I don't see any identity politics! No identity politics here! Nobody here but us chickens!!

                            His take on Iran is worth watching, I think:
                            In Iran, Trump’s disastrous (and utterly failed) “maximum pressure” campaign displays a stunning misunderstanding of Iranian history and strategic priorities. Indeed, Trump’s unilateral withdrawal from the landmark 2015 nuclear deal — negotiated alongside America’s closest allies and supported by key figures in the U.S. and Israeli security establishments — represents a tremendous blunder that is emboldening the worst, most conservative, anti-American factions in Iran. Trump’s withdrawal from the agreement also gives cover for Iran to inch ever-closer to obtaining a nuclear bomb.
                            "It should come as no wonder that America is the laughingstock of the world. With Trump siding with authoritarians and dictators around the world, American credibility and popularity on the international stage has plummeted to historic lows."

                            Well, on the bright side, I don't have to share Thanksgiving dinner with Marik Rennenkampff. It would be fun, though, to say grace, asking God to "preserve the health and give strength and wisdom to our president," just to see if Marik sticks around for the "Amen" before storming out.

                            If he believes what he writes, it's an hallucination, in my view, based on a long-term consumption of leftist cover stories, spin and deception, closer to the Walter Duranty school of journalism than to the "objectivity" he presumes.
                            • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
                            • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
                            • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
                            • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
                            • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
                            • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
                            • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
                            • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
                            • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

                            Comment

                            • scott
                              Go-to Guru
                              • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                              • 15799

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bok
                              No it wasn’t. It was tainted with ridicule and sarcasm. It was not an invitation to dialogue; you being open to a different way of viewing the world in an honest exchange undertaken in good faith.
                              Another claim to superiority.

                              You really cannot articulate your point can you? Pretending that your comment wasn't tainted with ridicule and sarcasm is quite funny.

                              Hey, you made your statement. If you can't back it up that sorta destroys your premise for making the statement in the first place. But you are a bit of a lightweight so go on with your talking points. Speak truth to power. Prove yourself.
                              "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                              -John Locke

                              "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                              -Newman

                              "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
                              -Newman

                              Comment

                              Working...