Defining a Theory of ‘Bribery’ for Impeachment

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  • Gingersnap
    Resident stylistic consultant
    • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
    • 24058

    #1

    Defining a Theory of ‘Bribery’ for Impeachment

    Excerpt:

    We disagree with this framework for analyzing bribery in the political context. Indeed, this theory, if adopted by the House, could have consequences for the separation of powers. The executive branch could come to view routine political compromises and horse-trading as illegal, and subject members of Congress to investigation and indictment. This theory would also make it effectively impossible for the president to exercise his personal constitutional authority to investigate wrongdoing by anyone, including those closely affiliated with his opponents, lest he be charged with a quid pro quo. The better theory, we contend, is that President Trump made a lawful request to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to begin an investigation of Hunter Biden, just as he could regarding any other Americans for that matter.

    We start from a simple premise: Most people run for office, and seek to remain in office, based on a belief that they—and not others—are in the best position to promote the public welfare, however defined. When government officials act, they almost always act with mixed motives: They act in part to promote the public good and in part to remain in office, or perhaps to seek higher office. Often, the two concepts overlap: What’s good for the country is good for the official and his or her chances at reelection. All politicians understand this dynamic, even—or perhaps especially—Trump. And there is nothing corrupt about acting based on such competing and overlapping concerns. Politicians can, and do, check the polls before casting a difficult vote.

    In some cases, disentangling the former public motivation from the latter personal motivation can be straightforward. For example, a government official demands a briefcase full of cash in exchange for voting for a particular bill. Here, the politician receives a benefit that inures entirely to his or her personal advantage. Even if the official uses that money to fund his or her campaign for reelection, the case for bribery is straightforward.

    Consider another case where disentangling the two motivations is more complicated. A politician running for reelection holds a fundraiser. He asks a donor to contribute to his reelection campaign. The donor tells the candidate that passage of a particular bill is very important to him. Then the donor writes a contribution check for the maximum amount permitted by law. Ultimately, the politician votes for the bill and states that he did so to promote the general welfare. In this scenario, the benefit does not go to the candidate’s private coffers but, instead, is deposited into his campaign’s treasury. Of course, the candidate cannot legally spend that money on his personal expenses, but the existence of those funds helps to ensure he remains in office. This run-of-the-mill scenario would not amount to bribery. We suspect that almost every member of Congress has engaged in similar conduct.
    Read the whole thing.

    Lawfare
    "Alexa, slaughter the fatted calf."
  • scott
    Go-to Guru
    • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
    • 15799

    #2
    Bribery is off the table. It's now "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress."

    The Democrats are a farce.
    "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
    -John Locke

    "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
    -Newman

    "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
    -Newman

    Comment

    • Celeste Chalfonte
      apostate
      • Saturday, October 5, 2013
      • 27897

      #3
      Originally posted by scott View Post
      Bribery is off the table. It's now "abuse of power" and "obstruction of Congress."

      The Democrats are a farce.
      "Obstruction of Congress" sounds familiar....
      "Since the historic ruling, the Lovings have become icons for equality. Mildred released a statement on the 40th anniversary of the ruling in 2007: 'I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, Black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.'." - Mildred Loving (Loving v. Virginia)

      Comment

      • Billy Jingo
        I shave with Occam's Razor
        • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
        • 18663

        #4
        Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
        "Obstruction of Congress" sounds familiar....
        I vacillate on that charge. While it is clear the President was intent on obstructing the investigation, Congress should seek the imprimatur of the Courts.

        Then again, Congress is its own branch of our government so fuck the Courts. If the Executive is being recalcitrant, toss him. The Judicial Branch is not needed.
        “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

        ~ Omar El Akkad
        ​

        Comment

        • scott
          Go-to Guru
          • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
          • 15799

          #5
          Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
          "Obstruction of Congress" sounds familiar....
          Yes it does. How did that work out?
          "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
          -John Locke

          "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
          -Newman

          "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
          -Newman

          Comment

          • scott
            Go-to Guru
            • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
            • 15799

            #6
            Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
            I vacillate on that charge. While it is clear the President was intent on obstructing the investigation, Congress should seek the imprimatur of the Courts.

            Then again, Congress is its own branch of our government so fuck the Courts. If the Executive is being recalcitrant, toss him. The Judicial Branch is not needed.
            This is why Democrats are such a farce. They are making that exact point - "Congress Congress is its own branch of our government so fuck the Courts. If the Executive is being recalcitrant, toss him. The Judicial Branch is not needed." That's fair, it's a political solution to a political problem using a political process. But Congress is not just the House of Representatives, which is why your party is a farce. You just handed Trump the 2020 election.
            "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
            -John Locke

            "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
            -Newman

            "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
            -Newman

            Comment

            • Newman
              Behind the Iron Curtain
              • Friday, November 1, 2013
              • 25814

              #7
              Originally posted by Celeste Chalfonte View Post
              "Obstruction of Congress" sounds familiar....
              Dershowitz: SCOTUS ‘Just Crippled the Second House Impeachment Charge Against Trump’
              President Trump received an unexpected and well-deserved win today. The Supreme Court agreed to review three cases related to subpoenas issued by the House Oversight and Financial committees and New York State prosecutors for the President’s financial records. The subpoenas were served upon two banks as well as Trump’s accounting firm. Lower courts have upheld these subpoenas.
              The second article charges that Trump “has directed the unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of subpoenas issued by the House of Representatives.” Stripping out the matter of Trump’s financial records weakens what was a rather pathetic case against the President to begin with. The article is left with the refusal of White House officials (claiming executive privilege) to appear before the House impeachment inquiry committees. House Democrats, who are in a hurry to get this done, elected not to fight those claims in court and chose instead, to add it to their articles of impeachment.

              Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz sees this as a huge win for the President. In a Friday night appearance on “Hannity,” Dershowitz explained.
              Look, the most important development happened today. The Supreme Court of the United States absolutely pulled the rug out of part two of the impeachment referral by granting certiorari, by granting review in a case where Trump challenged a congressional subpoena. And the Supreme Court said we’re going to hear this case.…Think of what that message is – It’s Trump was right.

              You don’t have to comply with a subpoena of Congress unless a court tells you you have to comply. Now, we don’t know how the Supreme Court is going to come out, but they made it clear that’s a viable issue. So that charge, that ground of impeachment, should be immediately removed by the House and not sent to the Senate. There’s nothing to it anymore after the Supreme Court today said you’re entitled to a review on an issue when the President challenges the subpoena power of Congress. It’s all done. It’s over.
              If the intent of the Democrats was to make an impeachment article out of Trump's resistance to some subpoenas, the SCOTUS seems to have taken that argument away, to say the resolution belongs in the courts, not in impeachment.
              • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
              • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
              • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
              • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
              • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
              • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
              • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
              • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
              • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

              Comment

              • scott
                Go-to Guru
                • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                • 15799

                #8
                If the intent of the Democrats was to make an impeachment article out of Trump's resistance to some subpoenas, the SCOTUS seems to have taken that argument away, to say the resolution belongs in the courts, not in impeachment.
                Even if SCOTUS rules against Trump the significance means there was no obstruction in just wanting his day in court.

                This impeachment case is flimsier than a speeding ticket in a southern town given by a one-car police department.
                "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                -John Locke

                "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                -Newman

                "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
                -Newman

                Comment

                • Norm dePlume
                  Err foil
                  • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                  • 14904

                  #9
                  I, for one, do not believe that our system of checks and balances requires two branches of government to team up against the third branch. Impeachment is how the legislative branch checks the executive. It doesn't require the assistance or support of the judicial branch to do so.
                  Enjoy.

                  Comment

                  • Norm dePlume
                    Err foil
                    • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                    • 14904

                    #10
                    For the record, I landed on abuse of power right out of the gate.

                    Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                    Strictly as a hypothetical, if a president of the United States were to pressure, say, Ukraine to pursue an investigation involving someone connected to another presidential candidate, that would be a clear abuse of power, right?
                    Enjoy.

                    Comment

                    • 80zephyr
                      Senior Member
                      • Saturday, January 3, 2015
                      • 19074

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                      I, for one, do not believe that our system of checks and balances requires two branches of government to team up against the third branch. Impeachment is how the legislative branch checks the executive. It doesn't require the assistance or support of the judicial branch to do so.
                      Does it require the assistance from the Executive branch? Can one branch of government simply demand compliance from another branch?

                      Mark
                      Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

                      "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

                      Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

                      Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

                      Comment

                      • Norm dePlume
                        Err foil
                        • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                        • 14904

                        #12
                        Originally posted by 80zephyr View Post
                        Does it require the assistance from the Executive branch? Can one branch of government simply demand compliance from another branch?

                        Mark
                        They can demand answers from the executive branch, and the executive can refuse at risk of being fired.
                        Enjoy.

                        Comment

                        • Frostbit
                          But only once
                          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                          • 22330

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Norm dePlume View Post
                          They can demand answers from the executive branch, and the executive can refuse at risk of being fired.
                          Sounds like a great plan for dealing with the FBI in the future
                          If it pays, it stays

                          Comment

                          • Norm dePlume
                            Err foil
                            • Tuesday, October 22, 2013
                            • 14904

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Frostbit View Post
                            Sounds like a great plan for dealing with the FBI in the future
                            You're not a branch of government, but go for it anyway.
                            Enjoy.

                            Comment

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