The Supreme Court isn’t well. The only hope for a cure is more justices.

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  • Billy Jingo
    I shave with Occam's Razor
    • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
    • 18663

    #1

    The Supreme Court isn’t well. The only hope for a cure is more justices.

    The Supreme Court isn’t well. The only hope for a cure is more justices.


    We now believe that Congress must expand the size of the Supreme Court and do so as soon as possible. We did not come to this conclusion lightly.

    One of us is a constitutional law scholar and frequent advocate before the Supreme Court, the other a federal judge for 17 years. After serving on the Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court over eight months, hearing multiple witnesses, reading draft upon draft of the final report issued this week, our views have evolved. We started out leaning toward term limits for Supreme Court justices but against court expansion and ended up doubtful about term limits but in favor of expanding the size of the court.

    We listened carefully to the views of commissioners who disagreed. Indeed, the process was a model for how people with deeply diverging perspectives can listen to one another respectfully and revise their views through genuine dialogue. We voted to submit the final report to President Biden not because we agreed with all of it — we did not — but because it accurately reflects the complexity of the issue and that diversity of views. There has never been so comprehensive and careful a study of ways to reform the Supreme Court, the history and legality of various potential reforms, and the pluses and minuses of each. This report will be of value well beyond today’s debates.

    But make no mistake: In voting to submit the report to the president neither of us cast a vote of confidence in the Supreme Court itself. Sadly, we no longer have that confidence, given three things: first, the dubious legitimacy of the way some justices were appointed; second, what Justice Sonia Sotomayor rightly called the “stench” of politics hovering over this court’s deliberations about the most contentious issues; and third, the anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian direction of this court’s decisions about matters such as voting rights, gerrymandering and the corrupting effects of dark money.

    Those judicial decisions haven’t been just wrong; they put the court — and, more important, our entire system of government — on a one-way trip from a defective but still hopeful democracy toward a system in which the few corruptly govern the many, something between autocracy and oligarchy. Instead of serving as a guardrail against going over that cliff, our Supreme Court has become an all-too-willing accomplice in that disaster.

    Worse, measures the court has enabled will fundamentally change the court and the law for decades. They operate to entrench the power of one political party: constricting the vote, denying fair access to the ballot to people of color and other minorities, and allowing legislative district lines to be drawn that exacerbate demographic differences. As a result, the usual ebb and flow that once tended to occur with succeeding elections is stalling. A Supreme Court that has been effectively packed by one party will remain packed into the indefinite future, with serious consequences to our democracy. This is a uniquely perilous moment that demands a unique response.

    None of the reforms that have been proposed precisely fit the problem that needs remedying. Term limits cannot be implemented in time to change the court’s self-reinforcing trajectory. And while much can be said in favor of the narrower repairs the commission addressed — such as increasing the transparency of the court’s proceedings, reducing its discretion over its docket or imposing constraints on its use of emergency procedures (“the shadow docket”) — none is adequate.

    Offsetting the way the court has been “packed” in an antidemocratic direction with added appointments leaning the other way is the most significant clearly constitutional step that could be taken quickly. Of course, there is no guarantee that new justices would change the destructive direction of judicial doctrine we have identified; respect for judicial independence makes that impossible. Of course, successive presidents might expand the court further, absent an unattainable constitutional amendment fixing its size at a number such as 13. But the costs are worth the benefits.

    Though fellow commissioners and others have voiced concern about the impact that a report implicitly criticizing the Supreme Court might have on judicial independence and thus judicial legitimacy, we do not share that concern. Far worse are the dangers that flow from ignoring the court’s real problems — of pretending conditions have not changed; of insisting improper efforts to manipulate the court’s membership have not taken place; of looking the other way when the court seeks to undo decades of precedent relied on by half the population to shape their lives just because, given the new majority, it has the votes.

    Put simply: Judicial independence is necessary for judicial legitimacy but not sufficient. And judicial independence does not mean judicial impunity, the illusion of neutrality in the face of oppression, or a surface appearance of fairness that barely conceals the ugly reality of partisan manipulation.

    Hand-wringing over the court’s legitimacy misses a larger issue: the legitimacy of what our union is becoming. To us, that spells a compelling need to signal that all is not well with the court, and that even if expanding it to combat what it has become would temporarily shake its authority, that risk is worth taking.

    It is starting to sink in. The Judiciary is broken.





    Our service on the Presidential Commission on the Supreme Court changed our minds about the need to counter the dubious legitimacy of recent appointments.
    “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

    ~ Omar El Akkad
    ​
  • 80zephyr
    Senior Member
    • Saturday, January 3, 2015
    • 19074

    #2
    Lol.

    Mark
    Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

    "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

    Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

    Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

    Comment

    • Newman
      Behind the Iron Curtain
      • Friday, November 1, 2013
      • 25814

      #3
      "We did not come to this decision lightly."

      O! how heavy hangs the head, especialy when it comes to eviscerating the institutions of our Republic to save it.
      • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
      • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
      • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
      • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
      • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
      • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
      • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
      • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
      • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

      Comment

      • 80zephyr
        Senior Member
        • Saturday, January 3, 2015
        • 19074

        #4
        Originally posted by Newman View Post
        "We did not come to this decision lightly."

        O! how heavy hangs the head, especialy when it comes to eviscerating the institutions of our Republic to save it.
        Translation: If the court would only rule they way we want it to, it wouldn't be broken.

        Mark
        Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

        "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

        Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

        Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

        Comment

        • JB
          Don't believe the hype
          • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
          • 4408

          #5
          Is that piece from January 22, 1973?
          Once you vote yourselves into Communism, you must shoot your way out.

          Science that cannot be questioned is propaganda.

          Comment

          • Newman
            Behind the Iron Curtain
            • Friday, November 1, 2013
            • 25814

            #6
            Originally posted by JB View Post
            Is that piece from January 22, 1973?


            • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
            • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
            • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
            • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
            • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
            • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
            • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
            • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
            • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

            Comment

            • scott
              Go-to Guru
              • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
              • 15799

              #7
              Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
              [B]


              It is starting to sink in. The Judiciary is broken.

              Starting to sink in? You folks on the left have been bleating this for decades. You're just mad that Obama only got 2 Justices confirmed and Trump got 3.

              I hope Democrats run on expanding the Supreme Court.
              "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
              -John Locke

              "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
              -Newman

              "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
              -Newman

              Comment

              • Billy Jingo
                I shave with Occam's Razor
                • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                • 18663

                #8
                Originally posted by scott View Post

                Starting to sink in?

                Yes. It is starting to sink in. The Court is losing its legitimacy. It is being seen as a political entity. I suppose it doesn't help when people go before it and claim they are there because now they have the votes (and they do).
                “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                ~ Omar El Akkad
                ​

                Comment

                • Adam
                  The way to a woman's heart is through her taste buds.
                  • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                  • 16885

                  #9
                  As surely as night follows day....
                  It's been ten years since that lonely day I left you
                  In the morning rain, smoking gun in hand
                  Ten lonely years but how my heart, it still remembers
                  Pray for me, momma, I'm a gypsy now

                  Comment

                  • daveman
                    We deal in lead.
                    • Sunday, November 10, 2013
                    • 1609

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post


                    Yes. It is starting to sink in. The Court is losing its legitimacy. It is being seen as a political entity. I suppose it doesn't help when people go before it and claim they are there because now they have the votes (and they do).
                    So the answer to a politicized court is...more justices that will rule as Democrats demand.

                    That's what this is all about. The left is angry that the Court currently makes decisions (mostly) based on the Constitution instead of the Democratic Party agenda.
                    “I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                    I aim with my eye.

                    "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
                    I shoot with my mind.

                    "I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
                    I kill with my heart.”

                    The Gunslinger Creed, Stephen King, The Dark Tower

                    Comment

                    • Newman
                      Behind the Iron Curtain
                      • Friday, November 1, 2013
                      • 25814

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post
                      Yes. It is starting to sink in. The Court is losing its legitimacy. It is being seen as a political entity. I suppose it doesn't help when people go before it and claim they are there because now they have the votes (and they do).
                      "Starting" is relative. I remember "impeach Earl Warren" billboards from my childhood., and I'm getting up there, sonny.

                      I agree that the Court's reputation is deteriorating, but I think it's been going on a long time.

                      I blame Pudding Head.

                      I think one should start with the shift in sentiment that lead to contentious confirmations. Used to be the nominations were confirmed regardless of ideology. Ginsburg was confirmed 96 to 3; Scalia was confirmed 98 to zero. Those votes are notable because of the contrast in political philosophies between the two. Near unanimous confirmations, usually confirmation by acclamation, were the rule.

                      List of nominations to the Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia

                      Contentious confirmations were not unknown, and rejections were not too uncommon. Nevertheless, between Scalia (1986) and Ginsburg (1993) we saw Bork borked (42-58) and Thomas extremely divisive (52-48), but remember Joe Biden chaired the Judiciary Commitee from 1987 to 1995.

                      Every single nomination since has be fairly close, possibly excepting Breyer in 1994 (87-9), and largely on Party lines. It might be too easy to blame Roe v Wade (1973) for the emerging partisanship, but it became the overarching isue facing every nominee, and calls for a "litmus test" became strident. NARAL was the bull in that china ship.

                      Biden presided at a crucial moment in the rise of activist pressure on Court nominations. I'd like to think presiding over these proceedings, a firm and clear-eyed chairman could have established a firm precedent that ideology, much less any "litmus test" on particular issues, would be off limits for any confirmation. Quality leadership, at a crujcial period, migh have set nominations on a different course.

                      Never underestimate the abilty of Old Joe to fuck things up, I paraphrase.
                      • "I'm a hell of a lot smarter than most of you guys." — Joe Biden, at Jesse Jackson's funeral, March 2026.​
                      • "That's all I do in my life. I make deals. I'm really good at it." — President Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2025.
                      • “Inside every progressive is a totalitarian screaming to get out,” — David Horowitz.
                      • "We [Democrats] are all willing to work with anyone who is serious about doing the work of censoring the American people, and advancing progress."​ — Ayanna Pressley, explaining progressives.
                      • ​​"Florida is where Woke goes to die." — Ron DeSantis.
                      • "No one is above the law, and everyone has the right to a trial to prove innocence." — Nancy Pelosi, explaining Lawfare.
                      • “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”​— Ben Franklin, who got it right.
                      • "The way I see it, there's always, c'mon, there's always money. It's there." — Elizabeth Warren, explaining socialism.
                      • "The interesting thing about the Green New Deal is it wasn't originally a climate thing at all.... We really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing." — Saikat Chakrabarti, then AOC's Chief of Staff.

                      Comment

                      • 80zephyr
                        Senior Member
                        • Saturday, January 3, 2015
                        • 19074

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Newman View Post
                        "Starting" is relative. I remember "impeach Earl Warren" billboards from my childhood., and I'm getting up there, sonny.

                        I agree that the Court's reputation is deteriorating, but I think it's been going on a long time.

                        I blame Pudding Head.

                        I think one should start with the shift in sentiment that lead to contentious confirmations. Used to be the nominations were confirmed regardless of ideology. Ginsburg was confirmed 96 to 3; Scalia was confirmed 98 to zero. Those votes are notable because of the contrast in political philosophies between the two. Near unanimous confirmations, usually confirmation by acclamation, were the rule.

                        List of nominations to the Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia

                        Contentious confirmations were not unknown, and rejections were not too uncommon. Nevertheless, between Scalia (1986) and Ginsburg (1993) we saw Bork borked (42-58) and Thomas extremely divisive (52-48), but remember Joe Biden chaired the Judiciary Commitee from 1987 to 1995.

                        Every single nomination since has be fairly close, possibly excepting Breyer in 1994 (87-9), and largely on Party lines. It might be too easy to blame Roe v Wade (1973) for the emerging partisanship, but it became the overarching isue facing every nominee, and calls for a "litmus test" became strident. NARAL was the bull in that china ship.

                        Biden presided at a crucial moment in the rise of activist pressure on Court nominations. I'd like to think presiding over these proceedings, a firm and clear-eyed chairman could have established a firm precedent that ideology, much less any "litmus test" on particular issues, would be off limits for any confirmation. Quality leadership, at a crujcial period, migh have set nominations on a different course.

                        Never underestimate the abilty of Old Joe to fuck things up, I paraphrase.
                        The "lion of the senate" put that football into play, and now the lefties are bitching because they taught us how to do it.

                        Typical.

                        Mark
                        Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

                        "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

                        Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

                        Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

                        Comment

                        • scott
                          Go-to Guru
                          • Tuesday, October 1, 2013
                          • 15799

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post


                          Yes. It is starting to sink in. The Court is losing its legitimacy. It is being seen as a political entity. I suppose it doesn't help when people go before it and claim they are there because now they have the votes (and they do).
                          When was the last time the Supreme Court ruled on a matter with which you agree? What's the first case in your lifetime that was ruled in a political way?
                          "Faith is nothing but a firm assent of the mind : which, if it be regulated, as is our duty, cannot be afforded to anything but upon good reason, and so cannot be opposite to it."
                          -John Locke

                          "It's all been melded together into one giant, authoritarian, leftist scream."
                          -Newman

                          "Grievance groups are playing King of the Hill."
                          -Newman

                          Comment

                          • Billy Jingo
                            I shave with Occam's Razor
                            • Wednesday, October 2, 2013
                            • 18663

                            #14
                            Originally posted by scott View Post

                            When was the last time the Supreme Court ruled on a matter with which you agree?
                            December 10, 2021.

                            What's the first case in your lifetime that was ruled in a political way?
                            Bush v Gore was the first I saw as political. I was not watching the Court intently prior to that.
                            Last edited by Billy Jingo; Sunday, December 12, 2021, 5:37 PM.
                            “One day, when it's safe, when there's no personal downside to calling a thing what it is, when it's too late to hold anyone accountable, everyone will have always been against this.”

                            ~ Omar El Akkad
                            ​

                            Comment

                            • 80zephyr
                              Senior Member
                              • Saturday, January 3, 2015
                              • 19074

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Billy Jingo View Post

                              December 10, 2021.



                              Bush v Gore was the first I saw as political. I was not watching the Court intently prior to that.
                              How was it political? Bush did win Florida.

                              Mark
                              Race Card: A tool of the intellectually weak and lazy when they cannot counter a logical argument or factual data.

                              "Liberals have to stop insisting that the world is what they want it to be instead of the way it is." - Bill Maher

                              Political correctness is ideological fascism. It’s the antithesis of freedom. Dr. Piper

                              Gender is not a "Social Construct", it is an outgrowth of biological reality.

                              Comment

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