Senator Warren big supporter for equal pay for women

[Frostbit]

OOPS!!

However, women working for Warren were paid just 71 cents for every dollar paid to men during the 2016 fiscal year, according to a Washington Free Beacon analysis.

The median annual earnings for women staffers, $52,750, was more than $20,000 less than the median annual earnings for men, $73,750, according to the analysis of publicly available Senate data.

When calculated using average salaries rather than median, the pay gap expands to just over $26,051, or about 31 percent.

[scott]

Typical leftist.

[Gingersnap]

Jeez, they never learn, do they?

Clinton had the same pay issues and there have been other political women with the same problem.

Either they are deliberately underpaying female staff or they are deliberately hiring younger, cheaper women and dumping older women with more expensive experience. It doesn't look good either way.

[Newman]

Jeez, they never learn, do they?

Clinton had the same pay issues and there have been other political women with the same problem.

Either they are deliberately underpaying female staff or they are deliberately hiring younger, cheaper women and dumping older women with more expensive experience. It doesn't look good either way.

But Hillary's campaign in particular was top-heavy with women, starting with Huma.

Y'know, a generation or so ago we went through the same thing with racial discrimination. DC Pols were all huffing about racial discrimination in the workplace, while their staffs were clearly racially selective, virtually all white as I recall.

I'm not sure it was passed, but laws were proposed to address the little carve out they routinely gave themselves regarding all those laws, including minimum wage laws.

[Gingersnap]

But Hillary's campaign in particular was top-heavy with women, starting with Huma.

Y'know, a generation or so ago we went through the same thing with racial discrimination. DC Pols were all huffing about racial discrimination in the workplace, while their staffs were clearly racially selective, virtually all white as I recall.

I'm not sure it was passed, but laws were proposed to address the little carve out they routinely gave themselves regarding all those laws, including minimum wage laws.

Well, for elected politicians, I have always favored the idea that they live by the laws they impose on us. All of them. But that's a different thread.

I don't understand why elected politicians don't disclose all salary information by law. Both State and Federal employees have compensation that any citizen can view. Surely working for an elected politician falls into this same sort of category. They aren't being paid privately - they are being paid through tax-payer funds or donations.

If compensation was disclosed, this disparity would disappear.

Now, that's what I want for them. For me, when I worked, I enjoyed negotiating and demanding perks. The whole Kabuki theater of it was entertaining. I almost always got whatever I wanted (within reason) because I was usually the only woman who liked playing hardball. You can usually find out whatever your peers are getting (male or female) so there's no excuse for not hitting for the fences.

What I noticed in my work life is that most women wait for somebody else to tell them that they should ask for more money. "You do a really good job, Susan. You should ask for a raise."

No. Nobody gets a raise for doing a good job. That is your job. You make your case when you've made a boatload of money for the company or averted disaster or rescued something or received favorable publicity or gotten a glowing recommendation from a client or whatever. That's when you strike and you ask for the Moon and negotiate down to whatever you really want.

For whatever reason, most women don't do this.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

Well, for elected politicians, I have always favored the idea that they live by the laws they impose on us. All of them. But that's a different thread.

I don't understand why elected politicians don't disclose all salary information by law. Both State and Federal employees have compensation that any citizen can view. Surely working for an elected politician falls into this same sort of category. They aren't being paid privately - they are being paid through tax-payer funds or donations.

If compensation was disclosed, this disparity would disappear.

Now, that's what I want for them. For me, when I worked, I enjoyed negotiating and demanding perks. The whole Kabuki theater of it was entertaining. I almost always got whatever I wanted (within reason) because I was usually the only woman who liked playing hardball. You can usually find out whatever your peers are getting (male or female) so there's no excuse for not hitting for the fences.

What I noticed in my work life is that most women wait for somebody else to tell them that they should ask for more money. "You do a really good job, Susan. You should ask for a raise."

No. Nobody gets a raise for doing a good job. That is your job. You make your case when you've made a boatload of money for the company or averted disaster or rescued something or received favorable publicity or gotten a glowing recommendation from a client or whatever. That's when you strike and you ask for the Moon and negotiate down to whatever you really want.

For whatever reason, most women don't do this.

Lack of role models. From the cradle, males are taught to believe they deserve more. Whatever it is, they deserve more of it. And being upfront about that is considered admirable.

It's the old double standard. A guy who tells the boss he's worth more is a go-getter. A woman who does the same is pushy. A guy who strikes a hard bargain in a business transaction is "willing to play hardball." A woman who does the same is abrasive. A guy who speaks up about being messed with is sticking up for himself. A woman who does the same is a complainer. And there are still residuals of this because women who came up under that situation don't know how, by and large, to teach their daughters to do it differently.

My sainted mother (she of the tempered steel virtual balls) told me 2 things about the workplace: always ask for more than you think they'll pay, and never let them know you need the job. It works.

On my own for the first time, 3000 miles from my parents, I started a job in a field in which I had no experience. Started as a trainee. Figured out in short order that I could do the job better than at least 75% of the people already doing it without breaking a sweat. Licensure wasn't required, but it made you more valuable and opened things up for promotion. I learned everything I could from my supervisor and co-workers, passed probation, was told by the state auditor that I couldn't take the exam for licensure until I had been in the job a year (I had been doing it for 6 months), called him on it (turned out there was no such requirement) and was scheduled to take the exam the next day with 4 other candidates from our office (all with a year+ experience) when the new manager came around and said, "I don't want you all to be nervous. If you don't pass the test, your pink slip won't be ready until Monday." Hah-hah. Management-school humor. I said, "I'll take mine now." He said, "Why, don't you expect to pass?" I replied, "Oh, I am certain I will. But if that's how you motivate people, I'll take my new license and go somewhere it will be appreciated." He was aghast. Backpedaled so fast he nearly stepped on his own crank. He assured us all it was "just a little joke."

I was a supervisor within a year of starting with the company, and left them for a much better (and better-paid) position in the field 6 months after that. Thanks, Mom.

[Gingersnap]

Lack of role models. From the cradle, males are taught to believe they deserve more. Whatever it is, they deserve more of it. And being upfront about that is considered admirable.

It's the old double standard. A guy who tells the boss he's worth more is a go-getter. A woman who does the same is pushy. A guy who strikes a hard bargain in a business transaction is "willing to play hardball." A woman who does the same is abrasive. A guy who speaks up about being messed with is sticking up for himself. A woman who does the same is a complainer. And there are still residuals of this because women who came up under that situation don't know how, by and large, to teach their daughters to do it differently.

My sainted mother (she of the tempered steel virtual balls) told me 2 things about the workplace: always ask for more than you think they'll pay, and never let them know you need the job. It works.

On my own for the first time, 3000 miles from my parents, I started a job in a field in which I had no experience. Started as a trainee. Figured out in short order that I could do the job better than at least 75% of the people already doing it without breaking a sweat. Licensure wasn't required, but it made you more valuable and opened things up for promotion. I learned everything I could from my supervisor and co-workers, passed probation, was told by the state auditor that I couldn't take the exam for licensure until I had been in the job a year (I had been doing it for 6 months), called him on it (turned out there was no such requirement) and was scheduled to take the exam the next day with 4 other candidates from our office (all with a year+ experience) when the new manager came around and said, "I don't want you all to be nervous. If you don't pass the test, your pink slip won't be ready until Monday." Hah-hah. Management-school humor. I said, "I'll take mine now." He said, "Why, don't you expect to pass?" I replied, "Oh, I am certain I will. But if that's how you motivate people, I'll take my new license and go somewhere it will be appreciated." He was aghast. Backpedaled so fast he nearly stepped on his own crank. He assured us all it was "just a little joke."

I was a supervisor within a year of starting with the company, and left them for a much better (and better-paid) position in the field 6 months after that. Thanks, Mom.

I've never had this experience and I expect women younger than I am have never had it. I was always encouraged to jump for the Moon by male supervisors and certainly by female supervisors.

It's not a role model thing. I worked with many guys who failed to negotiate well. Alpha nerds are not big on social skills and hate confrontation.

What is a salary negotiation but a big confrontation? It's a personality thing and more men than women have that personality but most men don't and even fewer women do. Basically, it's a risk thing. I mean in private industry, the risk is that you not only won't get the raise but you can be 'let go' because your demand is rejected.

Play hard.

[80zephyr]

I've never had this experience and I expect women younger than I am have never had it. I was always encouraged to jump for the Moon by male supervisors and certainly by female supervisors.

It's not a role model thing. I worked with many guys who failed to negotiate well. Alpha nerds are not big on social skills and hate confrontation.

What is a salary negotiation but a big confrontation? It's a personality thing and more men than women have that personality but most men don't and even fewer women do. Basically, it's a risk thing. I mean in private industry, the risk is that you not only won't get the raise but you can be 'let go' because your demand is rejected.

Play hard.

I agree with you views on this matter.

Mark

[Gingersnap]

Playing hard is just a thing. You know your value. If you actually have value, playing hard is less of a risk.

If your main value is flying a desk and any high school grad could do the same job with a month of training, well........there you are.

[Billy Jingo]

I have a seriously tribal liberal friend that posts stuff from Occupydemocrats on Facebook all the time. It's all I can do to keep from saying, "You don't believe this bullshit, do you?"

So ..... yeah.

[phillygirl]

I believe the numbers posted. I don't believe that means the women aren't getting equal pay. Just like I don't believe it in general in the workplace. Are there specific examples out there? Sure. But there are also legitimate reasons sometimes that women make less than men and that may be education, background, experience, hours worked, etc.

I also do believe that women generally don't ask for as much for themselves that men do. In my career, I was asked each year what I thought I should make in terms of salary the following year. Each time my boss gave me a bigger raise than I asked for.

[Gingersnap]

I believe the numbers posted. I don't believe that means the women aren't getting equal pay. Just like I don't believe it in general in the workplace. Are there specific examples out there? Sure. But there are also legitimate reasons sometimes that women make less than men and that may be education, background, experience, hours worked, etc.

I also do believe that women generally don't ask for as much for themselves that men do. In my career, I was asked each year what I thought I should make in terms of salary the following year. Each time my boss gave me a bigger raise than I asked for.

All of this.

There's a fallacy that opportunity automatically equates to equality. Not so much. If you were dumb before, you'll be dumb after. In government and higher ed, this is not a problem often. In private work, it's a big deal.

But not one government can solve.

[80zephyr]

I think this video explains a lot.

https://www.prageru.com/courses/political-science/there-no-gender-wage-gap

Mark

[Adam]

Jeez, they never learn, do they?

Clinton had the same pay issues and there have been other political women with the same problem.

Either they are deliberately underpaying female staff or they are deliberately hiring younger, cheaper women and dumping older women with more expensive experience. It doesn't look good either way.

Or, the far more likely scenario: women on the younger side of middle-age, who are just getting their start in the professional world and start making some money above and beyond secretarial/intern levels, decide that they want to go have a family and leave that particular workforce. This is the real explanation for "gender pay disparity:" women are different from men.

Certainly this isn't the case for every woman: lots of women either choose not to have children, or it's not in the biological deck of cards, or maybe they decide to "work through" having kids because they can afford to hire nannies and the like, but what's important here is that we're dealing with averages, or in this case medians. The simple facts of biology will "bust the curve" on averages every time. Women, broadly-speaking, will stay home for at least some duration to raise a child, and men will continue to work because they haven't pushed a watermelon through an orifice the size of a small lemon.

Fauxcohantas is almost certainly a "victim" of this fact of biology and math, just as much as Hillary and Obama and a whole host of others. The insinuation is that because cis-females have an average lower paycheck than cis-males, that automatically means that X employer magically gets to pay women less because they have a vagina instead of a penis. The reality is quite different, and I never cease to be amused by the caterwauling over it: if I, as an employer, could routinely pay women less because they are women, then why on earth would I ever hire Scott or Mark, when I could save 23% or whatever hiring Celeste or PG or Ginger or Michele to do the "same job" for less money? The only logical answer is that, for whatever reason, Celeste or Ginger or PG or Michele do not actually bring the same talents to the job as Scott or Mark or Norm or Bok do, and that reason is outside of my control.

[Newman]

So the essential drag on pay equity is children. Women without them do well.