What really killed COVID-19 patients

[Celeste Chalfonte]

Secondary bacterial infection of the lung (pneumonia) was extremely common in patients with COVID-19, affecting almost half the patients who required support from mechanical ventilation. By applying machine learning to medical record data, scientists at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine found that secondary bacterial pneumonia that does not resolve was a key driver of death in patients with COVID-19. It may even exceed death rates from the viral infection itself.

The scientists also found evidence that COVID-19 does not cause a "cytokine storm," so often believed to cause death.

The study was recently published in the Journal of Clinical Investigation."Our study highlights the importance of preventing, looking for and aggressively treating secondary bacterial pneumonia in critically ill patients with severe pneumonia, including those with COVID-19," said senior author Dr. Benjamin Singer, an associate professor of medicine at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine and a Northwestern Medicine pulmonary and critical care physician.

The investigators found nearly half of patients with COVID-19 develop a secondary ventilator-associated bacterial pneumonia.

"Those who were cured of their secondary pneumonia were likely to live, while those whose pneumonia did not resolve were more likely to die," Singer said. "Our data suggested that the mortality related to the virus itself is relatively low, but other things that happen during the ICU stay, like secondary bacterial pneumonia, offset that."

So, basically, the entire world medical profession was chasing zebras with sequins, while most "COVID deaths" were caused by regular old pack horses of science, bacteria. KNOWN, familiar, even routine bacteria.

As we learned first-hand, the treatment for a "cytokine storm" is steroids. I still marvel that Nova's "hospitalist" in ICU didn't manage to kill him, treating a problem he didn't have, while failing to treat the one he did have (massive pleural bacterial infection). Even though it only bought us a few months, due to his many other medical problems, at least his alert nephrologist made sure he didn't die alone in ICU. Of course the prednisone caused complications and made his recovery more difficult once they got him on the right treatment, but he did survive the hospitalization. What pissed me off was that they looked no further once he tested positive for COVID; valuable treatment days were lost to treating a positive test for something that wasn't actually making him sick.

[Gramps]

So, basically, the entire world medical profession was chasing zebras with sequins, while most "COVID deaths" were caused by regular old pack horses of science, bacteria. KNOWN, familiar, even routine bacteria.

As we learned first-hand, the treatment for a "cytokine storm" is steroids. I still marvel that Nova's "hospitalist" in ICU didn't manage to kill him, treating a problem he didn't have, while failing to treat the one he did have (massive pleural bacterial infection). Even though it only bought us a few months, due to his many other medical problems, at least his alert nephrologist made sure he didn't die alone in ICU. Of course the prednisone caused complications and made his recovery more difficult once they got him on the right treatment, but he did survive the hospitalization. What pissed me off was that they looked no further once he tested positive for COVID; valuable treatment days were lost to treating a positive test for something that wasn't actually making him sick.

It's people like you who have to bring your story public to expose the incompetency of our medical autocracy

[phillygirl]

So, basically, the entire world medical profession was chasing zebras with sequins, while most "COVID deaths" were caused by regular old pack horses of science, bacteria. KNOWN, familiar, even routine bacteria.

As we learned first-hand, the treatment for a "cytokine storm" is steroids. I still marvel that Nova's "hospitalist" in ICU didn't manage to kill him, treating a problem he didn't have, while failing to treat the one he did have (massive pleural bacterial infection). Even though it only bought us a few months, due to his many other medical problems, at least his alert nephrologist made sure he didn't die alone in ICU. Of course the prednisone caused complications and made his recovery more difficult once they got him on the right treatment, but he did survive the hospitalization. What pissed me off was that they looked no further once he tested positive for COVID; valuable treatment days were lost to treating a positive test for something that wasn't actually making him sick.

Ahh, the "hospitalist". Last time my sister was in the hospital and I was speaking with her neurosurgeon (thank god for him!) and I mentioned the hospitalist, he immediately reacted with "they're useless. They'll consult until the cows come home, but they can't diagnose or treat a single thing!

I remember the issue with Nova, and you're right. They're stuck on Covid (my sister has been tested 50 times if she's been tested once). As you will remember we almost lost my sister this last go round, again, because of the lack of quality medical care. How the heck do you add a medication, watch someone deteriorate badly, and not say to yourself, maybe we should stop that BRAND NEW DRUG that we just added to her 4 other drugs and see if that helps matters? Nope, the medical community refused to acknowledge that perhaps they made a mistake in giving her that drug and just kept trucking along until they finally ran out of options, 4 weeks later, and tried taking her off that drug. Miracles of miracles. But of course they wouldn't acknowledge that I told them 4 weeks earlier, and repeatedly that I thought it was the medication and I wanted them to take her off of it. But what do I know? I didn't go to a fancy medical school. And don't get me started about their inability to treat something as simple as constipation.

I can't imagine what they would do to her if she tested positive for Covid...probably kill her.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

It's people like you who have to bring your story public to expose the incompetency of our medical autocracy

The thing is, the doctors aren't incompetent. But someone who has never seen you until you come in through the ER, then doesn't have the benefit of a complete history because 1) you're not coherent (with O₂ sat in the mid-to-low 60s), doesn't talk to your family (because they're barred from the hospital due to draconian COVID "precautions"), and sees symptoms consistent with respiratory failure reaches the most obvious conclusion and doesn't investigate further because the time he can spend with each patient is limited by hospital administration and what Medicare thinks he ought to get paid for the visit. Bean-counters making medical decisions. He saw a grossly obese, respiratory-compromise patient with a positive test, and that's where the inquiry stopped.

I also believe that many of the staff saw a person with Nova's obviously serious comorbidities and wrote him off as being as good as dead when he came in.

[phillygirl]

The thing is, the doctors aren't incompetent. But someone who has never seen you until you come in through the ER, then doesn't have the benefit of a complete history because 1) you're not coherent (with O₂ sat in the mid-to-low 60s), doesn't talk to your family (because they're barred from the hospital due to draconian COVID "precautions"), and sees symptoms consistent with respiratory failure reaches the most obvious conclusion and doesn't investigate further because the time he can spend with each patient is limited by hospital administration and what Medicare thinks he ought to get paid for the visit. Bean-counters making medical decisions. He saw a grossly obese, respiratory-compromise patient with a positive test, and that's where the inquiry stopped.

I also believe that many of the staff saw a person with Nova's obviously serious comorbidities and wrote him off as being as good as dead when he came in.

Bingo to all of that. And some of the doctors are incompetent to boot. Especially hospitalists.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

Bingo to all of that. And some of the doctors are incompetent to boot. Especially hospitalists.

True. It wasn't until Nova's nephrologist insisted on an infectious disease consult that the right diagnosis got made and treatment started. That didn't happen until he had already gotten out of ICU, getting somewhat better in spite of the treatment, not because of it. And the nephrologist was in there every day, checking on what they were doing, even though none of the problems were related to the kidney disease. That guy was wonderful, even if he does have all the warmth and bedside manner of a turnip.

[Frostbit]

Twice the same hospitalist tried to kill Joyce after her back surgery pre-chemo. Once from neglect, she did not review the morning labs before coming in the room and telling Joyce and me "our labs are fine". Pet peeve, there is no we in medicine. The provider does not have the illness or injury, the patient does. I had already checked the lab results and Joyce's WBC went through the roof. that's a sign of infection. The Resident didn't look at the labs, didn't order cultures to find the source. I called the PA covering the surgeon and she ran the cultures for me and ordered the appropriate antibiotic.

Second time was transitioning Joyce from a morphine PCA pump to an oral form of long acting morphine. The dumbass screwed the pooch on the math and I found my wife in a coma on my visit. I asked the nurse what order changes there were because I saw the PCA pump gone. She gave me the orders and said "I was just following them". I told her, you weren't concerned when you couldn't wake my wife and the O2 sat alarm was going off? It's your job to be a patient advocate and protect your patients from incompetency. It's within your rights as the nurse to refuse an order and question it.

That day I called the head of the hospitalist group with both events. He was apologetic and said he'd wave the bill, I said I'm not looking for the bill to be waved I'm looking to tell you that you unleashed a freshly graduated resident on your patient population without over site and she is going to kill somebody. They put her on a 6 month preceptor plan which really pissed off the rest of the group because they had to watch her like a puppy.

[Newman]

Twice the same hospitalist tried to kill Joyce after her back surgery pre-chemo. Once from neglect, she did not review the morning labs before coming in the room and telling Joyce and me "our labs are fine". Pet peeve, there is no we in medicine. The provider does not have the illness or injury, the patient does. I had already checked the lab results and Joyce's WBC went through the roof. that's a sign of infection. The Resident didn't look at the labs, didn't order cultures to find the source. I called the PA covering the surgeon and she ran the cultures for me and ordered the appropriate antibiotic.

Second time was transitioning Joyce from a morphine PCA pump to an oral form of long acting morphine. The dumbass screwed the pooch on the math and I found my wife in a coma on my visit. I asked the nurse what order changes there were because I saw the PCA pump gone. She gave me the orders and said "I was just following them". I told her, you weren't concerned when you couldn't wake my wife and the O2 sat alarm was going off? It's your job to be a patient advocate and protect your patients from incompetency. It's within your rights as the nurse to refuse an order and question it.

That day I called the head of the hospitalist group with both events. He was apologetic and said he'd wave the bill, I said I'm not looking for the bill to be waved I'm looking to tell you that you unleashed a freshly graduated resident on your patient population without over site and she is going to kill somebody. They put her on a 6 month preceptor plan which really pissed off the rest of the group because they had to watch her like a puppy.

Alarming stories, and I'm glad you were present and assertive. I'm confident Joyce is, too.

It reminds me of occasional stories about construction work in which the customer brings independent expertise to bear on a project, correcting slipshod work or underhanded corner-cutting.

Sometimes I think it's amazing we get through this life at all.

One universal response is that we go through the years accumulating reliable and competent resources, go-to craftsmen, doctors, etc. we can trust. One of my (very few) regrets about leaving New York for Florida was leaving a car repair shop I had learned to rely on, for example.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

Alarming stories, and I'm glad you were present and assertive. I'm confident Joyce is, too.

It reminds me of occasional stories about construction work in which the customer brings independent expertise to bear on a project, correcting slipshod work or underhanded corner-cutting.

Sometimes I think it's amazing we get through this life at all.

One universal response is that we go through the years accumulating reliable and competent resources, go-to craftsmen, doctors, etc. we can trust. One of my (very few) regrets about leaving New York for Florida was leaving a car repair shop I had learned to rely on, for example.

Amen to that, same for me when we left Florida to move back to CA. I had a car repair/service place that treated my car as if his sister were going to drive it cross-country in a snowstorm. He'd lay out for me exactly what absolutely needed to be done for safety and what could be deferred until I could afford it. If you want to drive up to Gulfport for service, I'll PM you the name of the shop and who to tell them sent you.

As for doctors, we lucked out at Kaiser Oakland and Alameda, but now I'm outside Kaiser's service area and finding a PCP is a serious struggle, let alone finding one I trust.

[80zephyr]

I could write a book about medical malpractice. Its a wonder more people don't die.

Mark

[Lanie]

I have a question. Does the flu really kill people or is it the complications that arise from it like uh pneumonia? And yet nobody questions if the flu is what killed somebody. I realize some people have little to no immunity, but that's why it's important to be more vigilant about not spreading an illness, not less. On another note, I have a friend in her forties who got COVID and nearly died. She had to be put on the ventilator and I remember hearing how bacteria got to her heart. She was mostly healthy before that happened. While prayer and medical intervention helped, she does have permanent damage with some of her organs. Another friend of mine had a cousin who lived a normal life before COVID. He was a barber. He had to go on the ventilator and I think ECMO for a while. He was in the hospital a month and a half. He's alive and needs a kidney transplant. You're not going to convince me that COVID was harmless to healthy people. That was a lie.

I do often encourage pneumonia shots for people with age and certain medical conditions.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

I have a question. Does the flu really kill people or is it the complications that arise from it like uh pneumonia? And yet nobody questions if the flu is what killed somebody. I realize some people have little to no immunity, but that's why it's important to be more vigilant about not spreading an illness, not less. On another note, I have a friend in her forties who got COVID and nearly died. She had to be put on the ventilator and I remember hearing how bacteria got to her heart. She was mostly healthy before that happened. While prayer and medical intervention helped, she does have permanent damage with some of her organs. Another friend of mine had a cousin who lived a normal life before COVID. He was a barber. He had to go on the ventilator and I think ECMO for a while. He was in the hospital a month and a half. He's alive and needs a kidney transplant. You're not going to convince me that COVID was harmless to healthy people. That was a lie.

I do often encourage pneumonia shots for people with age and certain medical conditions.

Did you even read the article? AFAIK, the pneumonia vaccine is not effective against bacterial pneumonia that was introduced through the ventilator, misdiagnosed or undiagnosed, and not treated because nobody saw the pneumonia due to racing around in circles screaming "COVID! COVID!"

Nobody claims there were no deaths due to COVID. Nobody that I know of objects to reasonable and effective precautions. Counterproductive pseudo-medical theatrics demonstrably did make the entire situation far worse than it had to be.

[Gramps]

i object to stupidity.

[Celeste Chalfonte]

i object to stupidity.

I fear you're SOL, my man, because that shit IS pandemic.

[Lady Marva]

. And some of the doctors are incompetent to boot. Especially hospitalists.

What exactly do those people do?